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The interreGNUm is over! Hail the new maintainer! As part of his first edict, a Code of Conduct may happen: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/201

by jordigh 11y ago

The interreGNUm is over! Hail the new maintainer! As part of his first edict, a Code of Conduct may happen: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-11/msg00117.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-11/msg00... He also hangs out in #emacs in Freenode (username: johnw), which makes him seem very approachable in my eyes.

giancarlostoro 11y ago
Looking at his github profile (shared in another post) he looks like an approachable fellow as well. It definitely would be interesting to see where Emacs goes, he mentioned he already had some ideas, hopefully we get to see and appreciate those new features that come up.
- pzone 11y ago
  Just recently discussed on emacs-devel in the past few weeks: improved IDE features, concurrency, test-driven development, and guile-emacs. Big ideas for such an old code base.
username223 11y ago
> As part of his first edict, a Code of Conduct may happen Given the silliness endemic to many Codes of Conduct lately, this had me worried until I read through the message. But he's really just talking about trying to focus emacs-devel@ on development, while moving tangential discussion to another list. (I guess tagging subjects "[OT]" or "[TAN]" would be a bit too retro.)
- jordigh 11y ago
  Codes of conduct are not silliness. Almost everywhere that I have seen them implemented, I have seen a better atmosphere over that community. And while John may have phrased the need for a CoC as a matter of making sure things stay on topic, there are several people who are put off by the hostility of e-devel and would like it if people remained civil.
  - Karunamon 11y ago
    I'm curious, could you give a concrete example of a thing that a CoC has improved without simultaneously causing implicit pressure on people to remain silent about bad ideas in a project? "Civility" is, IMO, the least important thing in a project. Firstly because it can't be objectively defined, since some people find being told things like "no", "this is a terrible idea", etc to be uncivil, secondly because it means that people stop calling stuff crap that is actual crap. I also think it's silliness. If someone is an utterly disagreeable jerk, they should be ignored, or perhaps approached privately about their behavior, and then ignored if they don't knock it off. I don't see the need for a rigid, legalistic framework that can be abused as a cudgel against dissenters. This on the other hand sounds like less about "conduct" and more about dividing the lists into topically based groups, something that has zero abuse potential and is probably always a good idea.
    - jordigh 11y ago
      You're sealioning a bit with your first request, but off the top of my head, Python and Pycon are two examples. Also, codifying "be nice" isn't so impossible. It's the basis of all laws. And laws are not programming languages. They are all subjective and open to interpretation. This doesn't make them useless.
      - Karunamon 11y ago
        "Sealioning a bit"? Did you really just accuse me of bad faith for asking you for the most basic of discussion content? Asking someone to prove their stance is a negative, ever? Is this a thing you'd accuse someone of in a face to face conversation? Which, by the way, you did not do, which is why I asked for "concrete". A concrete example would be "This particular behavior in this particular community happened before the CoC was implemented, here's an example or two (link), the CoC addressed it in this way (link), and the negatve impacts you're worried about didn't manifest". Just saying "Python and Pycon" doesn't even begin to provide enough context. The only Pycon example I can think of off the top of my head is the height of incivility: getting people fired for jokes.

by jordigh 11y ago

giancarlostoro 11y ago

Looking at his github profile (shared in another post) he looks like an approachable fellow as well. It definitely would be interesting to see where Emacs goes, he mentioned he already had some ideas, hopefully we get to see and appreciate those new features that come up.

pzone 11y ago
Just recently discussed on emacs-devel in the past few weeks: improved IDE features, concurrency, test-driven development, and guile-emacs. Big ideas for such an old code base.

username223 11y ago

> As part of his first edict, a Code of Conduct may happen Given the silliness endemic to many Codes of Conduct lately, this had me worried until I read through the message. But he's really just talking about trying to focus emacs-devel@ on development, while moving tangential discussion to another list. (I guess tagging subjects "[OT]" or "[TAN]" would be a bit too retro.)

jordigh 11y ago
Codes of conduct are not silliness. Almost everywhere that I have seen them implemented, I have seen a better atmosphere over that community. And while John may have phrased the need for a CoC as a matter of making sure things stay on topic, there are several people who are put off by the hostility of e-devel and would like it if people remained civil.
- Karunamon 11y ago
  I'm curious, could you give a concrete example of a thing that a CoC has improved without simultaneously causing implicit pressure on people to remain silent about bad ideas in a project? "Civility" is, IMO, the least important thing in a project. Firstly because it can't be objectively defined, since some people find being told things like "no", "this is a terrible idea", etc to be uncivil, secondly because it means that people stop calling stuff crap that is actual crap. I also think it's silliness. If someone is an utterly disagreeable jerk, they should be ignored, or perhaps approached privately about their behavior, and then ignored if they don't knock it off. I don't see the need for a rigid, legalistic framework that can be abused as a cudgel against dissenters. This on the other hand sounds like less about "conduct" and more about dividing the lists into topically based groups, something that has zero abuse potential and is probably always a good idea.
  - jordigh 11y ago
    You're sealioning a bit with your first request, but off the top of my head, Python and Pycon are two examples. Also, codifying "be nice" isn't so impossible. It's the basis of all laws. And laws are not programming languages. They are all subjective and open to interpretation. This doesn't make them useless.
    - Karunamon 11y ago
      "Sealioning a bit"? Did you really just accuse me of bad faith for asking you for the most basic of discussion content? Asking someone to prove their stance is a negative, ever? Is this a thing you'd accuse someone of in a face to face conversation? Which, by the way, you did not do, which is why I asked for "concrete". A concrete example would be "This particular behavior in this particular community happened before the CoC was implemented, here's an example or two (link), the CoC addressed it in this way (link), and the negatve impacts you're worried about didn't manifest". Just saying "Python and Pycon" doesn't even begin to provide enough context. The only Pycon example I can think of off the top of my head is the height of incivility: getting people fired for jokes.