4 ms·

I am big fans of 37s. I learnt a lot from reading thier blog posts especially thier unconventional (at that time) thinking to avoid crazy detailed requirement d

by nrao123 11y ago

I am big fans of 37s. I learnt a lot from reading thier blog posts especially thier unconventional (at that time) thinking to avoid crazy detailed requirement docs, focus on blank error states etc... However, DHH's constant railing against the VC backed world seems a little tiresome. There seems to be a religious fervor to his essays that thier way is morally better (e.g. thier business model seems like a honest transaction vs VC backed startups who inflate numbers etc). I think a lot of people get that raising VC is not the only way to build a business (there is even a nice tradeoff statement (do you want to be Rich Vs King). It's a choice one makes. It's not morally inferior or superior to raise VCs or to bootstrap.

beat 11y ago
Isn't it? There's a history of con games (in both directions) in the VC world. It seems intuitive to me that it's easier for a "king" company to stay more focused on product and customers, and less on growth - sooner or later, if you're determined to grow at all costs, you'll have to decide to do something that hurts your customers, your team, your soul, in order to chase that growth. I mean, this isn't proof or anything. But there seems to be some intuitive truth to DHH's position.
- nrao123 11y ago
  What do you mean by history of con games? I guess it's possible to build large businesses like Google, Facebook, Uber, Apple etc without taking VC money but its a choice that these founders made that taking VC money helps them increase the odds that they will achieve thier goals. What's wrong with that? On the other hand- you have perfectly good businesses like Craigslist, ESRI, SAS, Zoho who did it without raising VC money. Nothing wrong with that either. Just different choices made by the founders of these companies.
  - noblethrasher 11y ago
    Microsoft is also a famous example of company that did not take VC money.
    - uiri 11y ago
      Microsoft's founders met at prep school - both were from well off families in the Pacific Northwest. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a little more family help available when starting their company than most. Not that they aren't an example of a company that did not take VC money, just that they may not be a particularly good example for most looking to follow that path.
djrogers 11y ago
I take the 'constant railing' as you call it as more of a reminder that there is a choice - 99% of the voices you hear in this world only talk about the VC backed method so the other 1% of voices tend to have to speak a little louder.
amdlla 11y ago
Are the blog posts still available?
- nrao123 11y ago
  Yes - you can see thier archives. Here is an example : https://signalvnoise.com/archives/001050.php https://signalvnoise.com/archives/001050.php
CPLX 11y ago
> focus on blank error states What does this phrase mean?
- nrao123 11y ago
  https://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch09_Three_State_Solution.php https://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch09_Three_State_Solution....
- ralmeida 11y ago
  I believe s/he meant blank and error states - the screen the user sees when there is no data to display. In short, 37 signals believe this screen should not display an empty list, but instead serve as a guide to the user. This is commonplace now ("You have nothing to read yet, [button]add someting[/button]"), but first mentions of this are from over 10 years ago: https://signalvnoise.com/archives/000375.php https://signalvnoise.com/archives/000375.php
eric_h 11y ago
DHH constantly rails against many things - it seems to be his natural idle state.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ryanSrich 11y ago
> However, DHH's constant railing against the VC backed world seems a little tiresome ...and yet so many young founders and employees are swindled into starting or working for the next unicorn of the world, giving away massive amounts of equity in their company. Killing themselves slowly by working 80 hour work weeks. At some point we need to start doing a better job of educating college grads that can program, design, engineer, etc. The more DHH's constant railing continues the better.
zzalpha 11y ago
There seems to be a religious fervor to his essays that thier way is morally better Weird, reading this thing, I never got a sense that he was saying that his approach was better, only that it wasn't worse...
joepie91_ 11y ago
"Constantly railing against X" is not a strange thing to do when X remains a problem for a long time, and people are either having a hard time or are unwilling to face it. This is not necessarily a bad thing. In this case, I'd say it's a good thing.

by nrao123 11y ago

beat 11y ago

Isn't it? There's a history of con games (in both directions) in the VC world. It seems intuitive to me that it's easier for a "king" company to stay more focused on product and customers, and less on growth - sooner or later, if you're determined to grow at all costs, you'll have to decide to do something that hurts your customers, your team, your soul, in order to chase that growth. I mean, this isn't proof or anything. But there seems to be some intuitive truth to DHH's position.

nrao123 11y ago
What do you mean by history of con games? I guess it's possible to build large businesses like Google, Facebook, Uber, Apple etc without taking VC money but its a choice that these founders made that taking VC money helps them increase the odds that they will achieve thier goals. What's wrong with that? On the other hand- you have perfectly good businesses like Craigslist, ESRI, SAS, Zoho who did it without raising VC money. Nothing wrong with that either. Just different choices made by the founders of these companies.
- noblethrasher 11y ago
  Microsoft is also a famous example of company that did not take VC money.
  - uiri 11y ago
    Microsoft's founders met at prep school - both were from well off families in the Pacific Northwest. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a little more family help available when starting their company than most. Not that they aren't an example of a company that did not take VC money, just that they may not be a particularly good example for most looking to follow that path.

djrogers 11y ago

I take the 'constant railing' as you call it as more of a reminder that there is a choice - 99% of the voices you hear in this world only talk about the VC backed method so the other 1% of voices tend to have to speak a little louder.

amdlla 11y ago

Are the blog posts still available?

nrao123 11y ago
Yes - you can see thier archives. Here is an example : https://signalvnoise.com/archives/001050.php https://signalvnoise.com/archives/001050.php

CPLX 11y ago

> focus on blank error states What does this phrase mean?

nrao123 11y ago
https://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch09_Three_State_Solution.php https://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch09_Three_State_Solution....
ralmeida 11y ago
I believe s/he meant blank and error states - the screen the user sees when there is no data to display. In short, 37 signals believe this screen should not display an empty list, but instead serve as a guide to the user. This is commonplace now ("You have nothing to read yet, [button]add someting[/button]"), but first mentions of this are from over 10 years ago: https://signalvnoise.com/archives/000375.php https://signalvnoise.com/archives/000375.php

eric_h 11y ago

DHH constantly rails against many things - it seems to be his natural idle state.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ryanSrich 11y ago

> However, DHH's constant railing against the VC backed world seems a little tiresome ...and yet so many young founders and employees are swindled into starting or working for the next unicorn of the world, giving away massive amounts of equity in their company. Killing themselves slowly by working 80 hour work weeks. At some point we need to start doing a better job of educating college grads that can program, design, engineer, etc. The more DHH's constant railing continues the better.

zzalpha 11y ago

There seems to be a religious fervor to his essays that thier way is morally better Weird, reading this thing, I never got a sense that he was saying that his approach was better, only that it wasn't worse...

joepie91_ 11y ago

"Constantly railing against X" is not a strange thing to do when X remains a problem for a long time, and people are either having a hard time or are unwilling to face it. This is not necessarily a bad thing. In this case, I'd say it's a good thing.