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Was simply pointing out the fact that Linux has been on Azure for years, because apparently some people don't know that. Indeed, according to Microsoft: "More t

by scholia 11y ago

Was simply pointing out the fact that Linux has been on Azure for years, because apparently some people don't know that. Indeed, according to Microsoft: "More than 20 percent of Azure virtual machines run on Linux." http://news.microsoft.com/cloud/index.html http://news.microsoft.com/cloud/index.html You're welcome to spin anything you like.

toyg 11y ago
Yeah, but "Red Hat being late" is not a fact, it's placing the burden on Red Hat for getting their stuff running on Microsoft's systems for Microsoft's benefit. "Microsoft was late getting Red Hat on board" is the exact same fact with the opposite spin. No spin would have been "both companies ironed out an agreement allowing their products to be commercially supported when working together, three years after Azure launched support for Linux systems". I know, not sexy.
- scholia 11y ago
  Red Hat could have been one of the first Linuxes on Azure, if it had wanted. But back in 2013, it said: "Red Hat CEO: We don't need Microsoft to succeed" http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--we-don-t-need-microsoft-to-succeed.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--... I don't see why you're quibbling about "late". It's a fact that it's more than three years later than a bunch of other versions. But hey, you can have your own spin.
  - toyg 11y ago
    Note how RedHat didn't say that: if you read the actual article (despite being from InfoWorld): > InfoWorld: Microsoft has a close business relationship with Suse Linux. That seems to be Microsoft's Linux of choice, and the company doesn't seem interested in having the same kind of partnership with Red Hat. Is that a problem for Red Hat? > Jim Whitehurst: We'd be happy to work on interoperability with Microsoft or anyone else. So yeah, Microsoft made a specific choice to partner with SuSE. RH said "whatever". Three years later, an agreement was finally struck between the two. Did RH "come around"? Or did MS finally recognize SuSE is a losing proposition? You don't know and I don't know, but implying one side took action without having any proof for it is, well, spin.
    - scholia 11y ago
      I know Microsoft pretty well, and it would have wanted to support as many versions as possible, within the available time-frame. It obviously didn't just support SuSE, so your implied either/or is just yet more of your spin. I don't know Red Hat that well (it's a few years since we've talked), but it has a strong focus on its own cloud business (1). It might have seen Azure as a rival to Red Hat cloud services, but that's just my speculation. (1) https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/cloud-computing https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/cloud-computing BELOW > I have no horse in this, no investment, nothing; I just don't like unsupported bias. Can you say the same? If you really don't like unsupported bias, perhaps you shouldn't post comments that reveal so much of it ;-) > Yes, it is "just your speculation". You could also cut out the cheap tricks. I referred specifically to the comment on Red Hat's motives, not to anything else.
      - toyg 11y ago
        > I know Microsoft pretty well, and it would have wanted to support as many versions as possible That's nice to know and I'm sure everyone always means well, but it doesn't change anything in factual terms. I don't know Red Hat but I'm sure they'd like to support as many cloud services as possible. > It obviously didn't just support SuSE, so your implied either/or is just yet more of your spin. Dude, honestly, I'm only reading what you linked, with InfoWorld saying MS had a preferential agreement with SuSE. I didn't link that, you did; if it doesn't agree with your view, why did you link it? Your first list had SuSE (twice), CentOS and Ubuntu, and again I took it at face value, so I don't think I implied anything. I have no horse in this, no investment, nothing; I just don't like unsupported bias. Can you say the same? > It might have seen Azure as a rival to Red Hat cloud services Sure, exactly like Microsoft might have seen Red Hat as a rival to Windows Server in the cloud. > but that's just my speculation. Yes, it is "just your speculation". That's what I said, and why I responded to your initial comment. Maybe because of insider knowledge you might have, you're interpreting facts in a somewhat biased view. That's fine, but you cannot assume everyone shares this particular view of the facts and spin it as an absolute truth. IMHO we've said everything that needed to be said so we might as well close it here.

by scholia 11y ago

toyg 11y ago

Yeah, but "Red Hat being late" is not a fact, it's placing the burden on Red Hat for getting their stuff running on Microsoft's systems for Microsoft's benefit. "Microsoft was late getting Red Hat on board" is the exact same fact with the opposite spin. No spin would have been "both companies ironed out an agreement allowing their products to be commercially supported when working together, three years after Azure launched support for Linux systems". I know, not sexy.

scholia 11y ago
Red Hat could have been one of the first Linuxes on Azure, if it had wanted. But back in 2013, it said: "Red Hat CEO: We don't need Microsoft to succeed" http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--we-don-t-need-microsoft-to-succeed.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--... I don't see why you're quibbling about "late". It's a fact that it's more than three years later than a bunch of other versions. But hey, you can have your own spin.
- toyg 11y ago
  Note how RedHat didn't say that: if you read the actual article (despite being from InfoWorld): > InfoWorld: Microsoft has a close business relationship with Suse Linux. That seems to be Microsoft's Linux of choice, and the company doesn't seem interested in having the same kind of partnership with Red Hat. Is that a problem for Red Hat? > Jim Whitehurst: We'd be happy to work on interoperability with Microsoft or anyone else. So yeah, Microsoft made a specific choice to partner with SuSE. RH said "whatever". Three years later, an agreement was finally struck between the two. Did RH "come around"? Or did MS finally recognize SuSE is a losing proposition? You don't know and I don't know, but implying one side took action without having any proof for it is, well, spin.
  - scholia 11y ago
    I know Microsoft pretty well, and it would have wanted to support as many versions as possible, within the available time-frame. It obviously didn't just support SuSE, so your implied either/or is just yet more of your spin. I don't know Red Hat that well (it's a few years since we've talked), but it has a strong focus on its own cloud business (1). It might have seen Azure as a rival to Red Hat cloud services, but that's just my speculation. (1) https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/cloud-computing https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/cloud-computing BELOW > I have no horse in this, no investment, nothing; I just don't like unsupported bias. Can you say the same? If you really don't like unsupported bias, perhaps you shouldn't post comments that reveal so much of it ;-) > Yes, it is "just your speculation". You could also cut out the cheap tricks. I referred specifically to the comment on Red Hat's motives, not to anything else.
    - toyg 11y ago
      > I know Microsoft pretty well, and it would have wanted to support as many versions as possible That's nice to know and I'm sure everyone always means well, but it doesn't change anything in factual terms. I don't know Red Hat but I'm sure they'd like to support as many cloud services as possible. > It obviously didn't just support SuSE, so your implied either/or is just yet more of your spin. Dude, honestly, I'm only reading what you linked, with InfoWorld saying MS had a preferential agreement with SuSE. I didn't link that, you did; if it doesn't agree with your view, why did you link it? Your first list had SuSE (twice), CentOS and Ubuntu, and again I took it at face value, so I don't think I implied anything. I have no horse in this, no investment, nothing; I just don't like unsupported bias. Can you say the same? > It might have seen Azure as a rival to Red Hat cloud services Sure, exactly like Microsoft might have seen Red Hat as a rival to Windows Server in the cloud. > but that's just my speculation. Yes, it is "just your speculation". That's what I said, and why I responded to your initial comment. Maybe because of insider knowledge you might have, you're interpreting facts in a somewhat biased view. That's fine, but you cannot assume everyone shares this particular view of the facts and spin it as an absolute truth. IMHO we've said everything that needed to be said so we might as well close it here.