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As interesting and insightful as this is, I'm very curious about how much the chosen level of categorisation affects the final result. For example, I notice tha

As interesting and insightful as this is, I'm very curious about how much the chosen level of categorisation affects the final result. For example, I notice that "registered nurse" and "nursing aide" are considered separate professions. That may well be valid (I assume it's to do with level of training and responsibility? I just picked the example because the jobs sound like they're similar, I'm not picking on nursing in particular.) but if you were to combine them, would they suddenly become the most common job in additional states? And presumably every job could be further subdivided (There are few "secretaries" remaining in part because of technological advances but also because that job has been somewhat rebranded into a bunch of more specific titles.), so where you draw that line might have a big impact on the ranking. Without visualising actual percentages (and/or maybe showing multiple jobs that rank highly), they're really limiting how much this map is telling us.

k3oni 11y ago
Just to expand on nursing, those 2 are actually really different jobs so they need their own category. A CNA needs a 3 month program/night school and that's it, for an RN you need to go to school/college for 4 years. There are far more CNAs then RNs but some CNAs do end up becoming RNs so there's that.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  You can become an RN by graduating from a community college.
  - bkjelden 11y ago
    Yea, there are 2 year and 4 year RN programs. RN = registered nurse. To be an RN you have to pass nursing boards, and then you are registered to practice nursing in the state(s) you work in. There are two year and four year programs to get your RN - the two year programs are an associates degree, 4 years are a bachelor's (BSN - bachelor's of science in nursing). Most hospitals are trying or would like to try to phase out hiring nurses who only have associate's degrees, but supply and demand (and maybe unions in some states) have prevented that from getting too far. Of course, on top of this, some areas also have LPNs (licensed practical nurses). These people usually also have an associates degree, but they haven't taken the RN boards. They are closer to RNs than aides or CNAs, but don't have quite the same scope of practice as an RN. And then you have DNPs (doctors of nursing practice) who are similar but not equivalent to PAs :) The set of regulations around different healthcare professions is really quite interesting. You have some relatively standard set of professions, but each state does licensure and scope of practice a little differently, so you end up with a huge matrix of what you can and can't do depending on your title and location. Unions will sometimes add their own restrictions on top of this. Pretty different from the world of software engineering, where there's no real licensure or certification and anything goes.
kristopolous 11y ago
Also, if there are say, 100 professions, the "#1" could constitute a staggering 1.1%. If all of this is self reported and free form (write in categories), this could just be more of an exercise in language then in actual profession. Also does this include part time work or those with jobs who are also students?
- maxerickson 11y ago
  They cite the source: https://cps.ipums.org/cps/ https://cps.ipums.org/cps/ Which is a project to, among other things, "Harmonize [Current Population Survey] data to be compatible over time". The Current Population Survey is run by professional statisticians and well documented: http://www.census.gov/cps/methodology/ioclassification.html http://www.census.gov/cps/methodology/ioclassification.html The classifications have some amount of subjectivity, but they probably aren't wildly arbitrary.
Spooky23 11y ago
A nurses aide is a minimum wage job. RNs are professionals. Think of it as a Level 1/2 support person in an IT environment compared to a software or infrastructure engineer.
the8472 11y ago
I would put it more strongly: The statistic is arbitrary because there is no method according to which the bins are chosen. Sure we can still glean some information from it. But the "most common job" is simply the largest bin for which nobody found it necessary to subdivide it further. What if we lumped "customer-facing jobs in brick and mortar stores" together. Cashier, waiter, retail salesperson etc. etc. Suddenly that might be largest bin. What if we subdivided urban truck (small truck?), medium, long haul? And split off agricultural use (tractor) too. Maybe it suddenly won't be largest bin anymore. For the purpose of the automated driving discussion urban settings are probably going to be automated much later due to the difficulty of navigating pedestrian zones and things like that.
- schiffern 11y ago
  Precisely. >urban settings are probably going to be automated much later due to the difficulty of navigating pedestrian zones and things like that. For those who haven't seen a recent Mobileye presentation[1], they're already well along on this problem with a BoM of only a couple grand in cameras and microchips. At that cost point and safety gain it won't take long for the regulators to just mandate it. [1] e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp3ik5f3-2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp3ik5f3-2c, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhpkvuPYfn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhpkvuPYfn8
  - the8472 11y ago
    I was trying to say that in the context of discussing job displacement by automation long-haul truck driving might be arriving sooner because its environment is simpler and there are fewer tangential requirements. And thus there would be a valid reason to split the bin for the purpose of that discussion. Which in turn would alter the results of those statistics.

k3oni 11y ago

Just to expand on nursing, those 2 are actually really different jobs so they need their own category. A CNA needs a 3 month program/night school and that's it, for an RN you need to go to school/college for 4 years. There are far more CNAs then RNs but some CNAs do end up becoming RNs so there's that.

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
You can become an RN by graduating from a community college.
- bkjelden 11y ago
  Yea, there are 2 year and 4 year RN programs. RN = registered nurse. To be an RN you have to pass nursing boards, and then you are registered to practice nursing in the state(s) you work in. There are two year and four year programs to get your RN - the two year programs are an associates degree, 4 years are a bachelor's (BSN - bachelor's of science in nursing). Most hospitals are trying or would like to try to phase out hiring nurses who only have associate's degrees, but supply and demand (and maybe unions in some states) have prevented that from getting too far. Of course, on top of this, some areas also have LPNs (licensed practical nurses). These people usually also have an associates degree, but they haven't taken the RN boards. They are closer to RNs than aides or CNAs, but don't have quite the same scope of practice as an RN. And then you have DNPs (doctors of nursing practice) who are similar but not equivalent to PAs :) The set of regulations around different healthcare professions is really quite interesting. You have some relatively standard set of professions, but each state does licensure and scope of practice a little differently, so you end up with a huge matrix of what you can and can't do depending on your title and location. Unions will sometimes add their own restrictions on top of this. Pretty different from the world of software engineering, where there's no real licensure or certification and anything goes.

kristopolous 11y ago

Also, if there are say, 100 professions, the "#1" could constitute a staggering 1.1%. If all of this is self reported and free form (write in categories), this could just be more of an exercise in language then in actual profession. Also does this include part time work or those with jobs who are also students?

maxerickson 11y ago
They cite the source: https://cps.ipums.org/cps/ https://cps.ipums.org/cps/ Which is a project to, among other things, "Harmonize [Current Population Survey] data to be compatible over time". The Current Population Survey is run by professional statisticians and well documented: http://www.census.gov/cps/methodology/ioclassification.html http://www.census.gov/cps/methodology/ioclassification.html The classifications have some amount of subjectivity, but they probably aren't wildly arbitrary.

Spooky23 11y ago

A nurses aide is a minimum wage job. RNs are professionals. Think of it as a Level 1/2 support person in an IT environment compared to a software or infrastructure engineer.

the8472 11y ago

I would put it more strongly: The statistic is arbitrary because there is no method according to which the bins are chosen. Sure we can still glean some information from it. But the "most common job" is simply the largest bin for which nobody found it necessary to subdivide it further. What if we lumped "customer-facing jobs in brick and mortar stores" together. Cashier, waiter, retail salesperson etc. etc. Suddenly that might be largest bin. What if we subdivided urban truck (small truck?), medium, long haul? And split off agricultural use (tractor) too. Maybe it suddenly won't be largest bin anymore. For the purpose of the automated driving discussion urban settings are probably going to be automated much later due to the difficulty of navigating pedestrian zones and things like that.

schiffern 11y ago
Precisely. >urban settings are probably going to be automated much later due to the difficulty of navigating pedestrian zones and things like that. For those who haven't seen a recent Mobileye presentation[1], they're already well along on this problem with a BoM of only a couple grand in cameras and microchips. At that cost point and safety gain it won't take long for the regulators to just mandate it. [1] e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp3ik5f3-2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp3ik5f3-2c, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhpkvuPYfn8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhpkvuPYfn8
- the8472 11y ago
  I was trying to say that in the context of discussing job displacement by automation long-haul truck driving might be arriving sooner because its environment is simpler and there are fewer tangential requirements. And thus there would be a valid reason to split the bin for the purpose of that discussion. Which in turn would alter the results of those statistics.