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Interesting to see an article about this on HN. I consider myself an antinatalist. Antinatalism is a philosophical position that assigns a negative value to bir

Interesting to see an article about this on HN. I consider myself an antinatalist. Antinatalism is a philosophical position that assigns a negative value to birth, and by extension, that it's immoral to have children. However, I think it's silly to try to promote it as a world view others should adopt. It's contrary to our most basic biological instincts. There is absolutely no chance for it to succeed as a movement. I also don't find the environment argument compelling. Our world has no inherent value other than the utility it provides for the creatures who live here. For me, antinatalism is just an issue of individual morality and not something to push as a political or social cause.

abalashov 11y ago
Out of interest, what is the individual moral argument--unrelated to environment or functional externalities like that--against procreation?
- Perceptes 11y ago
  Essentially that you're rolling the dice in a lot of ways when you have a child. They could be born with serious medical problems. Something terrible could happen to them through no fault of their own, like being in an accident or being the victim of a crime. Every human being will experience pain, sadness, and suffering in some way at some point in their lives. At the very least, they will have to face the foreknowledge of their own death, and the loss of family and friends that die before them. Creating a child forces a being to experience all these things that would otherwise never have had to. In an antinatalist world view, the possibility or even guarantee of good things happening to the child does not "balance out" or justify forcing them to experience negative things. I also don't want to have any part in contributing to humanity's self destruction and inflicting of suffering on other living things. We are not rational creatures. We largely do whatever we want, including hurting and killing each other, and make up all sorts of justifications for why it's okay. I'm no different in this regard, I just don't want to perpetuate that further. I'm a vegan, and there is no possible way to live a normal life as a person without having at least some negative effect on animal suffering by proxy. More than likely, the child would be much worse than the best possible case, and would eat meat, eggs, cheese, and use other non-food products made from animals. And beyond all of these reasons, there is just the fact that a person cannot consent to being born. If I had a child, they would be quite likely not to have such a pessimistic view of their own life, but there's no way to know that in advance. I would be making the choice for them because of what I wanted. I see having children as an extremely selfish and destructive act.
  - abalashov 11y ago
    Thanks for the explanation. It's something worth pondering.

abalashov 11y ago

Out of interest, what is the individual moral argument--unrelated to environment or functional externalities like that--against procreation?

Perceptes 11y ago
Essentially that you're rolling the dice in a lot of ways when you have a child. They could be born with serious medical problems. Something terrible could happen to them through no fault of their own, like being in an accident or being the victim of a crime. Every human being will experience pain, sadness, and suffering in some way at some point in their lives. At the very least, they will have to face the foreknowledge of their own death, and the loss of family and friends that die before them. Creating a child forces a being to experience all these things that would otherwise never have had to. In an antinatalist world view, the possibility or even guarantee of good things happening to the child does not "balance out" or justify forcing them to experience negative things. I also don't want to have any part in contributing to humanity's self destruction and inflicting of suffering on other living things. We are not rational creatures. We largely do whatever we want, including hurting and killing each other, and make up all sorts of justifications for why it's okay. I'm no different in this regard, I just don't want to perpetuate that further. I'm a vegan, and there is no possible way to live a normal life as a person without having at least some negative effect on animal suffering by proxy. More than likely, the child would be much worse than the best possible case, and would eat meat, eggs, cheese, and use other non-food products made from animals. And beyond all of these reasons, there is just the fact that a person cannot consent to being born. If I had a child, they would be quite likely not to have such a pessimistic view of their own life, but there's no way to know that in advance. I would be making the choice for them because of what I wanted. I see having children as an extremely selfish and destructive act.
- abalashov 11y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. It's something worth pondering.