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I don't disagree with you that he's wrong, but arguing without proper arguments then insulting him doesn't really help the conversation. @bcook: Heroin, if it
by corin_ 11y ago
I don't disagree with you that he's wrong, but arguing without proper arguments then insulting him doesn't really help the conversation.
@bcook:
Heroin, if it was 100% pure (e.g. as manufactured by a pharmacuticals company), and used with completely safe equipment (e.g. sterylised needles), and used at not-too-high dose levels, it would actually be pretty safe. It essentially has the same effect as morphine or oxycodone, both of which are prescribed legally (my dad has been on morphine for a few years, extended release so he doesn't get high.. but it also doesn't kill him).
The biggest danger is indeed purity - if you think that "x" amount is the right dose for your tolerance (and tolerance not only varies based on how much a user has had before, but also on that person's body in the first place) but one batch you buy is y% pure and the next batch is 2y% pure, you can accidentally dose yourself twice as much as you are expecting and overdose.
Of course overdose is possible with drugs where you completely know the strength - such as oxycontin pills - but with semi-sensible use it's a lot harder, since you actually know how much of the drug you're taking.
Yes it can be addictive, but if you never over do it and can afford to keep buying clean drugs like oxycontin you're most likely going to be fine. The biggest risk with prescription painkillers like this is not that they'll kill you, but that you'll become addicted to them and, when you either can't get another prescription or can't afford your illegal purchases, you move onto heroin because it's much cheaper per dose. Cheaper per dose, but also less pure and therefore more likely to be dangerous.
I personally wouldn't try heroin because I don't want to become dependant on something (other than tobacco..), but if it was completely pure then addition would be the only thing that scared me away from it, not fear of death from using it.
- bcook 11y agoCite an article that says the purity of heroin is the most dangerous part of heroin use. Just one reputable article. Put up or shutup. I posted 3 well-established papers above if you want some reading.
- ryanlol 11y agohttps://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=heroin+overdose+purity&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=heroin+overdose+p... Considering purity fluctuations will actually KILL you rather than just make you want more, yeah I'd say that's by far the most dangerous part of street heroin.
- bcook 11y agoI just lost a relative. I would be much more hurt if they were still alive and stealing from me, working as a prostitute, or murdering strangers for a fix. A ruined life is worse than a lost life. Yes, purity is a problem, but it is far from the most impactful potential effects of heroin use.
- corin_ 11y agoHere's an interesting brief-read: http://lifeprocessprogram.com/lp-blog/library/the-persistent-dangerous-myth-of-heroin-overdose/ http://lifeprocessprogram.com/lp-blog/library/the-persistent... Here's a paper about treating opiate addicts with pure heroin and it having positive effects: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2008.02185.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2008.... If you read up pretty much any information about the dangers of heroin, you will see that they are overdose (which you can prevent by using the right amounts), risk when mixed with other drugs (including alcohol), and risk surrounding it (e.g. sharing needles, committing crimes to afford it, etc.) You're still as likely to get addicted, but if you know the dose you're putting into your body you'll probably be fine. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects) cites "Merck Manual of Home Health Handbook – 2nd edition, 2003, p. 2097" for the following statement: "Like most opioids, unadulterated heroin does not cause many long-term complications other than dependence and constipation." Followed by "...purity levels between 40% and 60%; this variation has led to people suffering from overdoses as a result" Pure Heroin is actually prescribed as a legal drug in some countries, e.g. the UK: http://patient.info/medicine/diamorphine http://patient.info/medicine/diamorphine and once inside your body is almost exactly the same as morphine that is prescribed as a painkiller in most countries. These drugs, when prescribed (and therefore completely pure and dosage known), very rarely cause problems for their users other than tolerance build-up and potential for users to use recreationally without knowing what dose to use. So stop being rude and go do some Googling yourself, or ask any doctor the next time you go see one / are in a hospital, and they'll tell you the same thing.
- bcook 11y agoYou said "The biggest danger is indeed purity". Nothing that you referenced says that. Yes, it is a part of any drug use and is a big reason to legalize, but purity is not the biggest danger. The physical and psychological dependance are the biggest problem. Adulterants are nearly impossible to study, given the unknowns. Sorry about the "put up or shutup".
- blumkvist 11y agoSo... how is the discussion going? Productive? :)