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I sense unwarranted criticism here – it's not like the ups and downs of BitCoin are going to affect a major economy any time soon (or ever). It's more a good t

by exprx 11y ago

I sense unwarranted criticism here – it's not like the ups and downs of BitCoin are going to affect a major economy any time soon (or ever). It's more a good thing there's this new game speculators can play; even if someone games the system, it isn't going to affect anything of value (e.g. a company producing something of value). It's not like BitCoin is ever going to be a major currency, or a real currency, really. The distribution of it is even more skewed, and artificially so, than that of any real currency. (And no, it isn't analogous to early investors in a business.)

necessity 11y ago
Btc is as real a currency as it gets, I bought VPSs with it just like I have bought them by unsafer payment methods in the past (supplying credit card info). Although more common in the trading of digital commodities, you can buy physical goods such as clothes and pizza with it, depending where you live. It just doesn't enjoy widespread adoption outside the digital world yet.
- berns 11y ago
  It isn't a currency, it's just another payment method. Your provider will exchange the bitcoins for a real currency to pay their employees and taxes.
  - necessity 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
- vectorpush 11y ago
  > I bought VPSs with it Wow! A VPS! Something that 99% of the population has no use for. How about paying rent, medical bills, utilities, phone bill, groceries, tuition, gas, car payment, car insurance, car maintenance, tolls, daycare, taxes... you know, the kind of things that real people actually care about. > just like I have bought them by unsafer payment methods in the past Bitcoin is by far the most unsafe method of payment for 99% of the population. Credit cards offer comprehensive fraud protection; bitcoin offers zero protection and zero recourse if your money is stolen or lost due to a crash/virus/hack/forgot to backup my wallet before formatting (and when this happens, the user is always blamed, duh, you should have bought a trezor!). With a credit card none of this happens, and if money is somehow stolen from your credit card, the card is quickly deactivated and the victim is fully reimbursed for any fraudulent charges. This straight up LIE about the safety of bitcoin relative to credit cards is infuriating.
  - aianus 11y ago
    > Credit cards offer comprehensive fraud protection; bitcoin offers zero protection and zero recourse if your money is stolen or lost None of that shit helps me when I can't buy what I want because the merchant is in the U.S., my credit card is issued in Canada, and my shipping address is in Thailand. I don't care about other people, I should be able to buy things online in 2015 and accept the risk of fraud my own damn self. And the merchant should (and wants to!) be capable of serving me.
    - vectorpush 11y ago
      Nothing you said conflicts with my post. Your situation is extremely unusual and pretty much defines "high risk" from a fraud prevention perspective. For 99% of the population this is a non-issue.
      - aianus 11y ago
        My point is that with Bitcoin I can opt-out of the overpriced fraud protection racket that is my credit card. This allows transactions to take place that could not take place otherwise. It's a feature, not a bug. If you think my situation is too crazy, then consider someone who wants to buy a $15,000 Rolex or gold bar online or place a $5,000 bet on a football game starting in 3 minutes. There are many applications for digital cash that are not being served by existing electronic payment methods.
        vectorpush 11y ago
        > My point is that with Bitcoin I can opt-out of the overpriced fraud protection racket that is my credit card. And right there is the crux of your disconnect from the general population. The vast majority of people don't view fraud protection as a racket; it doesn't cost them anything as far as they are aware and the benefits are pretty clear, especially compared with bitcoin where permanent loss of funds because of hackers or arbitrary technical problems is a real risk. > then consider someone who wants to buy a $15,000 Rolex or gold bar online or place a $5,000 bet on a football game starting in 3 minutes. Ummm, those all sound like pretty unusual use-cases that the general population has no use for. I never said bitcoin was useless so you can stop proselytizing, all I said was that credit cards are clearly much safer than bitcoin if you define safe to mean "protects my money from being lost or stolen".

by exprx 11y ago

necessity 11y ago

Btc is as real a currency as it gets, I bought VPSs with it just like I have bought them by unsafer payment methods in the past (supplying credit card info). Although more common in the trading of digital commodities, you can buy physical goods such as clothes and pizza with it, depending where you live. It just doesn't enjoy widespread adoption outside the digital world yet.

berns 11y ago
It isn't a currency, it's just another payment method. Your provider will exchange the bitcoins for a real currency to pay their employees and taxes.
- necessity 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
vectorpush 11y ago
> I bought VPSs with it Wow! A VPS! Something that 99% of the population has no use for. How about paying rent, medical bills, utilities, phone bill, groceries, tuition, gas, car payment, car insurance, car maintenance, tolls, daycare, taxes... you know, the kind of things that real people actually care about. > just like I have bought them by unsafer payment methods in the past Bitcoin is by far the most unsafe method of payment for 99% of the population. Credit cards offer comprehensive fraud protection; bitcoin offers zero protection and zero recourse if your money is stolen or lost due to a crash/virus/hack/forgot to backup my wallet before formatting (and when this happens, the user is always blamed, duh, you should have bought a trezor!). With a credit card none of this happens, and if money is somehow stolen from your credit card, the card is quickly deactivated and the victim is fully reimbursed for any fraudulent charges. This straight up LIE about the safety of bitcoin relative to credit cards is infuriating.
- aianus 11y ago
  > Credit cards offer comprehensive fraud protection; bitcoin offers zero protection and zero recourse if your money is stolen or lost None of that shit helps me when I can't buy what I want because the merchant is in the U.S., my credit card is issued in Canada, and my shipping address is in Thailand. I don't care about other people, I should be able to buy things online in 2015 and accept the risk of fraud my own damn self. And the merchant should (and wants to!) be capable of serving me.
  - vectorpush 11y ago
    Nothing you said conflicts with my post. Your situation is extremely unusual and pretty much defines "high risk" from a fraud prevention perspective. For 99% of the population this is a non-issue.
    - aianus 11y ago
      My point is that with Bitcoin I can opt-out of the overpriced fraud protection racket that is my credit card. This allows transactions to take place that could not take place otherwise. It's a feature, not a bug. If you think my situation is too crazy, then consider someone who wants to buy a $15,000 Rolex or gold bar online or place a $5,000 bet on a football game starting in 3 minutes. There are many applications for digital cash that are not being served by existing electronic payment methods.
      - vectorpush 11y ago
        > My point is that with Bitcoin I can opt-out of the overpriced fraud protection racket that is my credit card. And right there is the crux of your disconnect from the general population. The vast majority of people don't view fraud protection as a racket; it doesn't cost them anything as far as they are aware and the benefits are pretty clear, especially compared with bitcoin where permanent loss of funds because of hackers or arbitrary technical problems is a real risk. > then consider someone who wants to buy a $15,000 Rolex or gold bar online or place a $5,000 bet on a football game starting in 3 minutes. Ummm, those all sound like pretty unusual use-cases that the general population has no use for. I never said bitcoin was useless so you can stop proselytizing, all I said was that credit cards are clearly much safer than bitcoin if you define safe to mean "protects my money from being lost or stolen".