4 ms·

What is the best way for me as a UK citizen to try and fight this? Just keep donating to the EFF? Talk to my local MP?

ionised 11y ago
Enough voters are so easily led by fear and minsinformation that I'm starting to think that there is nothing at all we can do. I am a member of the Open Rights Group. I make monthly donations and attend their conferences. I petition and write to MPs and MEPs and nothing works. I don't even get replies. Which is why I am now considering moving out of the country. I'm currently weighing up my options. There is very little about Britain, its politics and the majority of the voterbase that I have anything in common with, apart from being born on the same patch of dirt.
- fauigerzigerk 11y ago
  Where do you consider moving?
  - ionised 11y ago
    A few places I've considered and researched so far are Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, Belgium, and Switzerland. Some of these countries are worse than others when it comes to similar surveillance or civil liberties issues but they all at least appear to be very much preferable to Britain and the path it is on. The language barrier in issue in some of these places more than others, although I am open to learning a new language. I began taking German lessons recently just for fun. The actual process of gaining citizenship or even residency can be difficult too, especially for somewhere like Iceland from what I have learned. It's obviously a massive decision to make and not one that can be made quickly and rashly. I just can't see myself wanting to stay here in the UK much longer. I don't feel any kinship with this place.
    - gerty 11y ago
      From personal experience, language barrier wouldn't be an issue in Belgium for a tech job. Due to existent Flemish/French division, English often becomes the local esperanto, although it may depend on the company policy.
      - ionised 11y ago
        Yeah I imagine professionally (as a developer) my English language wouldn't be a major hurdle in many of these countries. I think that I would have some problems socially though. Naviagting my way around the country, buying goods and just trying to talk to people would pose more of a problem.
        fauigerzigerk 11y ago
        Yes, socially, and also for minor things like renting an appartment, communicating with service providers, tax authorities, banks, etc.
    - undefined0 11y ago
      Iceland IMO would only be good if the Pirate Party actually wins the election, but at the moment I think it's too soon to consider that country an option for myself. Norway, Denmark, Germany & Belgium censor websites for corporations which rules them out for me and some of them also appear to be going down the same path as the UK. I want somewhere where I can operate my websites without having to constantly suffer from a Chilling Effect, as I do currently in the UK.
- millak 11y ago
  My (Canadian) wife is proposing that we emigrate to Canada in the medium-term - I'm inclined to agree with her for the same reasons that you give.
  - ionised 11y ago
    Canada is something I've only thought about in passing. I don't really know much about the process of moving there to be honest. I'll have to read into it.
  - toothbrush 11y ago
    Canada is on my short-list too, but i wonder if it is really any better? It is 5-eyes, after all.
  - swombat 11y ago
    Iceland seems to be pretty awesome from a political point of view. And it's still close to most European cities.
    - toyg 11y ago
      Effing cold though... and right when UK weather had got a bit more tolerable for us Meds (thank you, El Niño!)
- akerro 11y ago
  Where would you move out? Any other of 5eyes country? 13eyes?
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  I suspect that's true of most British people now. The media image may not be a majority view. But I'm also on the "get out soon" train.
- Xophmeister 11y ago
  Likewise: I'm a member of ORG and have written to my MP with no response. The general population either don't care or, as you say, are misled with bias and what amounts to emotional blackmail ("Think of the children", etc.)... We're doomed. The thing is, there doesn't really seem to be anywhere that isn't close behind.
- edc117 11y ago
  I know this is a UK related thing, but I've honestly felt this way about the US lately as well (and the situation isn't much different). Not sure where to look, everyone seems to have their problems dealing with the disruption and possibilities technology is bringing.
- undefined0 11y ago
  In a past HN thread someone posted the same conclusion, of just moving country. I feel the exact same as well, but utopia doesn't exist, so what country do people suggest? Finland, Switzerland, Czech Republic or South American countries (Costa Rica, Panama, etc) are the countries I have in mind. I'd gladly move to Switzerland but it costs too much. Romania appears tech friendly but it's too poor there. South America is nice but it's too far away from the UK, so going to my family for Christmas would be a problem.
AlphaSite 11y ago
EFF is the US focused why would donating to them do anything for us?
- akerro 11y ago
  Generally it's a good idea for everyone to support EFF, most of data about you, your family, friends is in the US. If EFF or ACLU or wikimedia can make a good change in the US, everyone will benefit.
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    Also, should the EFF score some victories, it would set a precedence and spread to other countries (spying agencies seem to follow the US)
agd 11y ago
If you're in the UK, you should donate to the Open Rights Group (UK equivalent to the EFF). https://www.openrightsgroup.org/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/
mhandley 11y ago
Perhaps join the Open Rights Group: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/ They're more UK-focused than the EFF.
chippy 11y ago
This is a proposed bill and will be debated in parliament. You should talk to your MP, ideally in person, or at least via email / letter (Talktoyourmp)
noja 11y ago
Donate to the ORG please.
- ionised 11y ago
  Yes this. The Open Rights Group are more or less the UK equivelant to the EFF.

Enough voters are so easily led by fear and minsinformation that I'm starting to think that there is nothing at all we can do. I am a member of the Open Rights Group. I make monthly donations and attend their conferences. I petition and write to MPs and MEPs and nothing works. I don't even get replies. Which is why I am now considering moving out of the country. I'm currently weighing up my options. There is very little about Britain, its politics and the majority of the voterbase that I have anything in common with, apart from being born on the same patch of dirt.

fauigerzigerk 11y ago
Where do you consider moving?
- ionised 11y ago
  A few places I've considered and researched so far are Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, Belgium, and Switzerland. Some of these countries are worse than others when it comes to similar surveillance or civil liberties issues but they all at least appear to be very much preferable to Britain and the path it is on. The language barrier in issue in some of these places more than others, although I am open to learning a new language. I began taking German lessons recently just for fun. The actual process of gaining citizenship or even residency can be difficult too, especially for somewhere like Iceland from what I have learned. It's obviously a massive decision to make and not one that can be made quickly and rashly. I just can't see myself wanting to stay here in the UK much longer. I don't feel any kinship with this place.
  - gerty 11y ago
    From personal experience, language barrier wouldn't be an issue in Belgium for a tech job. Due to existent Flemish/French division, English often becomes the local esperanto, although it may depend on the company policy.
    - ionised 11y ago
      Yeah I imagine professionally (as a developer) my English language wouldn't be a major hurdle in many of these countries. I think that I would have some problems socially though. Naviagting my way around the country, buying goods and just trying to talk to people would pose more of a problem.
      - fauigerzigerk 11y ago
        Yes, socially, and also for minor things like renting an appartment, communicating with service providers, tax authorities, banks, etc.
  - undefined0 11y ago
    Iceland IMO would only be good if the Pirate Party actually wins the election, but at the moment I think it's too soon to consider that country an option for myself. Norway, Denmark, Germany & Belgium censor websites for corporations which rules them out for me and some of them also appear to be going down the same path as the UK. I want somewhere where I can operate my websites without having to constantly suffer from a Chilling Effect, as I do currently in the UK.
millak 11y ago
My (Canadian) wife is proposing that we emigrate to Canada in the medium-term - I'm inclined to agree with her for the same reasons that you give.
- ionised 11y ago
  Canada is something I've only thought about in passing. I don't really know much about the process of moving there to be honest. I'll have to read into it.
- toothbrush 11y ago
  Canada is on my short-list too, but i wonder if it is really any better? It is 5-eyes, after all.
- swombat 11y ago
  Iceland seems to be pretty awesome from a political point of view. And it's still close to most European cities.
  - toyg 11y ago
    Effing cold though... and right when UK weather had got a bit more tolerable for us Meds (thank you, El Niño!)
akerro 11y ago
Where would you move out? Any other of 5eyes country? 13eyes?
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
I suspect that's true of most British people now. The media image may not be a majority view. But I'm also on the "get out soon" train.
Xophmeister 11y ago
Likewise: I'm a member of ORG and have written to my MP with no response. The general population either don't care or, as you say, are misled with bias and what amounts to emotional blackmail ("Think of the children", etc.)... We're doomed. The thing is, there doesn't really seem to be anywhere that isn't close behind.
edc117 11y ago
I know this is a UK related thing, but I've honestly felt this way about the US lately as well (and the situation isn't much different). Not sure where to look, everyone seems to have their problems dealing with the disruption and possibilities technology is bringing.
undefined0 11y ago
In a past HN thread someone posted the same conclusion, of just moving country. I feel the exact same as well, but utopia doesn't exist, so what country do people suggest? Finland, Switzerland, Czech Republic or South American countries (Costa Rica, Panama, etc) are the countries I have in mind. I'd gladly move to Switzerland but it costs too much. Romania appears tech friendly but it's too poor there. South America is nice but it's too far away from the UK, so going to my family for Christmas would be a problem.

AlphaSite 11y ago

EFF is the US focused why would donating to them do anything for us?

akerro 11y ago
Generally it's a good idea for everyone to support EFF, most of data about you, your family, friends is in the US. If EFF or ACLU or wikimedia can make a good change in the US, everyone will benefit.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Also, should the EFF score some victories, it would set a precedence and spread to other countries (spying agencies seem to follow the US)

agd 11y ago

If you're in the UK, you should donate to the Open Rights Group (UK equivalent to the EFF). https://www.openrightsgroup.org/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/

mhandley 11y ago

Perhaps join the Open Rights Group: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/ They're more UK-focused than the EFF.

chippy 11y ago

This is a proposed bill and will be debated in parliament. You should talk to your MP, ideally in person, or at least via email / letter (Talktoyourmp)

noja 11y ago

Donate to the ORG please.

ionised 11y ago
Yes this. The Open Rights Group are more or less the UK equivelant to the EFF.