4 ms·

Heroin addiction is one of the most harmful documented drug-addictions. The need for heroin, physically and psychologically, is the driving force behind the soc

by bcook 11y ago

Heroin addiction is one of the most harmful documented drug-addictions. The need for heroin, physically and psychologically, is the driving force behind the social and personal damage attributed to heroin. People do not get addicted to non-narcotic adulterants and become prostitutes. A cutting agent like caffeine or sugar is probably the safest ingredient...

blumkvist 11y ago
Caffeine? Sugar? Lol! How about mice poison? Reading wikipedia and actually knowing stuff about drugs are very different things. Please stop posting, you don't have a clue.
- bcook 11y ago
  You focused on the least important part of what I wrote then resort to ad hominem attacks. There is no sensible conversation to be had here.
  - blumkvist 11y ago
    I don't want to have a conversation with you. You don't know the first thing about the subject. Why would I want to talk to you about it?
    - corin_ 11y ago
      I don't disagree with you that he's wrong, but arguing without proper arguments then insulting him doesn't really help the conversation. @bcook: Heroin, if it was 100% pure (e.g. as manufactured by a pharmacuticals company), and used with completely safe equipment (e.g. sterylised needles), and used at not-too-high dose levels, it would actually be pretty safe. It essentially has the same effect as morphine or oxycodone, both of which are prescribed legally (my dad has been on morphine for a few years, extended release so he doesn't get high.. but it also doesn't kill him). The biggest danger is indeed purity - if you think that "x" amount is the right dose for your tolerance (and tolerance not only varies based on how much a user has had before, but also on that person's body in the first place) but one batch you buy is y% pure and the next batch is 2y% pure, you can accidentally dose yourself twice as much as you are expecting and overdose. Of course overdose is possible with drugs where you completely know the strength - such as oxycontin pills - but with semi-sensible use it's a lot harder, since you actually know how much of the drug you're taking. Yes it can be addictive, but if you never over do it and can afford to keep buying clean drugs like oxycontin you're most likely going to be fine. The biggest risk with prescription painkillers like this is not that they'll kill you, but that you'll become addicted to them and, when you either can't get another prescription or can't afford your illegal purchases, you move onto heroin because it's much cheaper per dose. Cheaper per dose, but also less pure and therefore more likely to be dangerous. I personally wouldn't try heroin because I don't want to become dependant on something (other than tobacco..), but if it was completely pure then addition would be the only thing that scared me away from it, not fear of death from using it.
      - bcook 11y ago
        Cite an article that says the purity of heroin is the most dangerous part of heroin use. Just one reputable article. Put up or shutup. I posted 3 well-established papers above if you want some reading.
        ryanlol 11y ago
        https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=heroin+overdose+purity&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=heroin+overdose+p... Considering purity fluctuations will actually KILL you rather than just make you want more, yeah I'd say that's by far the most dangerous part of street heroin.
        bcook 11y ago
        I just lost a relative. I would be much more hurt if they were still alive and stealing from me, working as a prostitute, or murdering strangers for a fix. A ruined life is worse than a lost life. Yes, purity is a problem, but it is far from the most impactful potential effects of heroin use.
        corin_ 11y ago
        Here's an interesting brief-read: http://lifeprocessprogram.com/lp-blog/library/the-persistent-dangerous-myth-of-heroin-overdose/ http://lifeprocessprogram.com/lp-blog/library/the-persistent... Here's a paper about treating opiate addicts with pure heroin and it having positive effects: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2008.02185.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2008.... If you read up pretty much any information about the dangers of heroin, you will see that they are overdose (which you can prevent by using the right amounts), risk when mixed with other drugs (including alcohol), and risk surrounding it (e.g. sharing needles, committing crimes to afford it, etc.) You're still as likely to get addicted, but if you know the dose you're putting into your body you'll probably be fine. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects) cites "Merck Manual of Home Health Handbook – 2nd edition, 2003, p. 2097" for the following statement: "Like most opioids, unadulterated heroin does not cause many long-term complications other than dependence and constipation." Followed by "...purity levels between 40% and 60%; this variation has led to people suffering from overdoses as a result" Pure Heroin is actually prescribed as a legal drug in some countries, e.g. the UK: http://patient.info/medicine/diamorphine http://patient.info/medicine/diamorphine and once inside your body is almost exactly the same as morphine that is prescribed as a painkiller in most countries. These drugs, when prescribed (and therefore completely pure and dosage known), very rarely cause problems for their users other than tolerance build-up and potential for users to use recreationally without knowing what dose to use. So stop being rude and go do some Googling yourself, or ask any doctor the next time you go see one / are in a hospital, and they'll tell you the same thing.
- ryanlol 11y ago
  The cuts are VERY rarely anything harmful by themselves, that'd be a pretty shitty business move.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Some supporting references: The adulterants and bulking agents cover a wide range of substances. At the cleaner end you have caffeine (reduces vapour point of heroin), Chloroquine (looks a bit like heroin), and paracetamol. https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/frontpage/2009/June/afghanistan-identifies-cutting-agents-for-heroin.html https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/frontpage/2009/June/afghanist... At the dirtier / dangerous end you have lead (possibly a contaminant from "cooking" vessels, causes serious harm when injected) http://www.cph.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/cut-a-guide-to-the-adulterants-bulking-agents-and-other-contaminants-found-in-illicit-drugs.pdf http://www.cph.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/cut-a-guide... The illegal nature of the drugs means there are risks of bacterial / fungal contamination - anthrax, botulism, etc from the drug, but also from household products used to increase the potency. For example, if a heroin user goes to a clinic they'll be provided with clean vitamin C. If they're at home they may use lemon juice. > In Glasgow 23 heroin users were diagnosed with Candida endophthalmitis (intraocular fungal infection), bio-typing analysis indicated that the lemon juice used to prepare heroin injections was the source of contamination (Shankland & Richardson, 1988). In Spain, contaminated lemon juice was also suspected as the cause of an outbreak of Candida albicans amongst injecting heroin users (Miro et al., 1987). Probably most relevant: > As discussed previously, the evidence detailed above suggests that adulterants are added to heroin typically either to (1) dilute the product with benign substances making it less pure and increasing profits, or (2) to enhance the heroin (i.e. to make it more efficient when smoked) (Huizer, 1987). The evidence does not concur with the mythology of the addition of gravel, brick dust, household cleaning products or poisons by unscrupulous drug dealers.
throwaway7767 11y ago
> People do not get addicted to non-narcotic adulterants and become prostitutes. A cutting agent like caffeine or sugar is probably the safest ingredient... The biggest physical danger of heroin use is the risk of overdose. The main reason people overdose is because of the adulterants - they don't know how potent the stuff is. x mg of batch A might be a good high, whereash x mg of batch B will kill you from an overdose. Even if the adulterants are themselves safe, the presence of them is a risk to the users, because they make it impossible to determine dosage.

by bcook 11y ago

blumkvist 11y ago

Caffeine? Sugar? Lol! How about mice poison? Reading wikipedia and actually knowing stuff about drugs are very different things. Please stop posting, you don't have a clue.

bcook 11y ago
You focused on the least important part of what I wrote then resort to ad hominem attacks. There is no sensible conversation to be had here.
- blumkvist 11y ago
  I don't want to have a conversation with you. You don't know the first thing about the subject. Why would I want to talk to you about it?
  - corin_ 11y ago
    I don't disagree with you that he's wrong, but arguing without proper arguments then insulting him doesn't really help the conversation. @bcook: Heroin, if it was 100% pure (e.g. as manufactured by a pharmacuticals company), and used with completely safe equipment (e.g. sterylised needles), and used at not-too-high dose levels, it would actually be pretty safe. It essentially has the same effect as morphine or oxycodone, both of which are prescribed legally (my dad has been on morphine for a few years, extended release so he doesn't get high.. but it also doesn't kill him). The biggest danger is indeed purity - if you think that "x" amount is the right dose for your tolerance (and tolerance not only varies based on how much a user has had before, but also on that person's body in the first place) but one batch you buy is y% pure and the next batch is 2y% pure, you can accidentally dose yourself twice as much as you are expecting and overdose. Of course overdose is possible with drugs where you completely know the strength - such as oxycontin pills - but with semi-sensible use it's a lot harder, since you actually know how much of the drug you're taking. Yes it can be addictive, but if you never over do it and can afford to keep buying clean drugs like oxycontin you're most likely going to be fine. The biggest risk with prescription painkillers like this is not that they'll kill you, but that you'll become addicted to them and, when you either can't get another prescription or can't afford your illegal purchases, you move onto heroin because it's much cheaper per dose. Cheaper per dose, but also less pure and therefore more likely to be dangerous. I personally wouldn't try heroin because I don't want to become dependant on something (other than tobacco..), but if it was completely pure then addition would be the only thing that scared me away from it, not fear of death from using it.
    - bcook 11y ago
      Cite an article that says the purity of heroin is the most dangerous part of heroin use. Just one reputable article. Put up or shutup. I posted 3 well-established papers above if you want some reading.
      - ryanlol 11y ago
        https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=heroin+overdose+purity&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=heroin+overdose+p... Considering purity fluctuations will actually KILL you rather than just make you want more, yeah I'd say that's by far the most dangerous part of street heroin.
        bcook 11y ago
        I just lost a relative. I would be much more hurt if they were still alive and stealing from me, working as a prostitute, or murdering strangers for a fix. A ruined life is worse than a lost life. Yes, purity is a problem, but it is far from the most impactful potential effects of heroin use.
      - corin_ 11y ago
        Here's an interesting brief-read: http://lifeprocessprogram.com/lp-blog/library/the-persistent-dangerous-myth-of-heroin-overdose/ http://lifeprocessprogram.com/lp-blog/library/the-persistent... Here's a paper about treating opiate addicts with pure heroin and it having positive effects: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2008.02185.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2008.... If you read up pretty much any information about the dangers of heroin, you will see that they are overdose (which you can prevent by using the right amounts), risk when mixed with other drugs (including alcohol), and risk surrounding it (e.g. sharing needles, committing crimes to afford it, etc.) You're still as likely to get addicted, but if you know the dose you're putting into your body you'll probably be fine. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects) cites "Merck Manual of Home Health Handbook – 2nd edition, 2003, p. 2097" for the following statement: "Like most opioids, unadulterated heroin does not cause many long-term complications other than dependence and constipation." Followed by "...purity levels between 40% and 60%; this variation has led to people suffering from overdoses as a result" Pure Heroin is actually prescribed as a legal drug in some countries, e.g. the UK: http://patient.info/medicine/diamorphine http://patient.info/medicine/diamorphine and once inside your body is almost exactly the same as morphine that is prescribed as a painkiller in most countries. These drugs, when prescribed (and therefore completely pure and dosage known), very rarely cause problems for their users other than tolerance build-up and potential for users to use recreationally without knowing what dose to use. So stop being rude and go do some Googling yourself, or ask any doctor the next time you go see one / are in a hospital, and they'll tell you the same thing.
ryanlol 11y ago
The cuts are VERY rarely anything harmful by themselves, that'd be a pretty shitty business move.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Some supporting references: The adulterants and bulking agents cover a wide range of substances. At the cleaner end you have caffeine (reduces vapour point of heroin), Chloroquine (looks a bit like heroin), and paracetamol. https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/frontpage/2009/June/afghanistan-identifies-cutting-agents-for-heroin.html https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/frontpage/2009/June/afghanist... At the dirtier / dangerous end you have lead (possibly a contaminant from "cooking" vessels, causes serious harm when injected) http://www.cph.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/cut-a-guide-to-the-adulterants-bulking-agents-and-other-contaminants-found-in-illicit-drugs.pdf http://www.cph.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/cut-a-guide... The illegal nature of the drugs means there are risks of bacterial / fungal contamination - anthrax, botulism, etc from the drug, but also from household products used to increase the potency. For example, if a heroin user goes to a clinic they'll be provided with clean vitamin C. If they're at home they may use lemon juice. > In Glasgow 23 heroin users were diagnosed with Candida endophthalmitis (intraocular fungal infection), bio-typing analysis indicated that the lemon juice used to prepare heroin injections was the source of contamination (Shankland & Richardson, 1988). In Spain, contaminated lemon juice was also suspected as the cause of an outbreak of Candida albicans amongst injecting heroin users (Miro et al., 1987). Probably most relevant: > As discussed previously, the evidence detailed above suggests that adulterants are added to heroin typically either to (1) dilute the product with benign substances making it less pure and increasing profits, or (2) to enhance the heroin (i.e. to make it more efficient when smoked) (Huizer, 1987). The evidence does not concur with the mythology of the addition of gravel, brick dust, household cleaning products or poisons by unscrupulous drug dealers.

throwaway7767 11y ago

> People do not get addicted to non-narcotic adulterants and become prostitutes. A cutting agent like caffeine or sugar is probably the safest ingredient... The biggest physical danger of heroin use is the risk of overdose. The main reason people overdose is because of the adulterants - they don't know how potent the stuff is. x mg of batch A might be a good high, whereash x mg of batch B will kill you from an overdose. Even if the adulterants are themselves safe, the presence of them is a risk to the users, because they make it impossible to determine dosage.