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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially

by bcook 11y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially. This is well established. Also, I would not use popular media as the basis for any sound argument. :( Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant. Wow. :( Edit: This is the first time I wished I could downvote. lol. "Clean" heroin...

aianus 11y ago
> Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. There are countless rock stars, for example, that maintained families and highly successful careers while regularly using heroin. > Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant. Heroin addiction doesn't kill you. What kills you is when you buy a gram that's three times as pure as the last one so you accidentally overdose. Even if you don't believe addicts can lead normal lives, as long as they're shooting up clean, cheap heroin of predictable purity there at least exists a chance of rehabilitation and a normal life in their futures.
- hoodoof 11y ago
  Agreed. And if your heroin costs cents instead of dollars you don't have to spend your available time trying to steal money to buy it, risking arrest and jail as well as making innocent people victims of your cash-seeking crimes.
- bcook 11y ago
  Anecdotes are not a valid citation. Heroin is the most harmful drug, statistically, according to numerous studies.
  - ryanlol 11y ago
    Not heroin, but a completely unknown substance presented as heroin that probably consists of around 30% heroin.
    - bcook 11y ago
      Heroin addiction is one of the most harmful documented drug-addictions. The need for heroin, physically and psychologically, is the driving force behind the social and personal damage attributed to heroin. People do not get addicted to non-narcotic adulterants and become prostitutes. A cutting agent like caffeine or sugar is probably the safest ingredient...
      - blumkvist 11y ago
        Caffeine? Sugar? Lol! How about mice poison? Reading wikipedia and actually knowing stuff about drugs are very different things. Please stop posting, you don't have a clue.
        bcook 11y ago
        You focused on the least important part of what I wrote then resort to ad hominem attacks. There is no sensible conversation to be had here.
        blumkvist 11y ago
        I don't want to have a conversation with you. You don't know the first thing about the subject. Why would I want to talk to you about it?
        corin_ 11y ago
        I don't disagree with you that he's wrong, but arguing without proper arguments then insulting him doesn't really help the conversation. @bcook: Heroin, if it was 100% pure (e.g. as manufactured by a pharmacuticals company), and used with completely safe equipment (e.g. sterylised needles), and used at not-too-high dose levels, it would actually be pretty safe. It essentially has the same effect as morphine or oxycodone, both of which are prescribed legally (my dad has been on morphine for a few years, extended release so he doesn't get high.. but it also doesn't kill him). The biggest danger is indeed purity - if you think that "x" amount is the right dose for your tolerance (and tolerance not only varies based on how much a user has had before, but also on that person's body in the first place) but one batch you buy is y% pure and the next batch is 2y% pure, you can accidentally dose yourself twice as much as you are expecting and overdose. Of course overdose is possible with drugs where you completely know the strength - such as oxycontin pills - but with semi-sensible use it's a lot harder, since you actually know how much of the drug you're taking. Yes it can be addictive, but if you never over do it and can afford to keep buying clean drugs like oxycontin you're most likely going to be fine. The biggest risk with prescription painkillers like this is not that they'll kill you, but that you'll become addicted to them and, when you either can't get another prescription or can't afford your illegal purchases, you move onto heroin because it's much cheaper per dose. Cheaper per dose, but also less pure and therefore more likely to be dangerous. I personally wouldn't try heroin because I don't want to become dependant on something (other than tobacco..), but if it was completely pure then addition would be the only thing that scared me away from it, not fear of death from using it.
hoodoof 11y ago
Just one link after 10 second Google search: Fentanyl-linked heroin deaths part of larger drug overdose trend http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-08/news/bs-md-sun-investigates-fentanyl-20140208_1_heroin-overdoses-drug-overdoses-fentanyl-laced-heroin http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-08/news/bs-md-sun-i...
- bcook 11y ago
  How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure? Overdoses happen even with pure heroin. Also, I assumed "citation" would infer that a reputable book or scholarly white paper should be referenced, not a very short newspaper article. Though, we both seem to be unwavering in our views, so I am cool with stopping this back and forth. :)
  - hoodoof 11y ago
    >> How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure I didn't say that. My point was that people can lead functional lives on heroin with families and jobs. If the heroin is impure, laced with dangerous chemicals or of unknown strength then the cutting agents can harm people or they may overdose. Clean heroin is free of harmful cutting agents, of known purity and not laced with other drugs. You mock the term "clean heroin" but that's what it is. You misread my original post.
    - bcook 11y ago
      I mock "clean heroin" because at it's purest, it is still the most harmful drug. More harmful than meth, crack, cocaine, etc, etc. I cited Wikipedia. You have still cited nothing of worth.
      - hoodoof 11y ago
        Can you compare psychotic violence of heroin addicts versus meth addicts? That's what I mean by harmful. Meth addicts are psychotically violent and are responsible for countless murders and attacks. Heroin addicts get smacked out and unconscious. Perhaps dangerous to themselves.

by bcook 11y ago

aianus 11y ago

> Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. There are countless rock stars, for example, that maintained families and highly successful careers while regularly using heroin. > Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant. Heroin addiction doesn't kill you. What kills you is when you buy a gram that's three times as pure as the last one so you accidentally overdose. Even if you don't believe addicts can lead normal lives, as long as they're shooting up clean, cheap heroin of predictable purity there at least exists a chance of rehabilitation and a normal life in their futures.

hoodoof 11y ago
Agreed. And if your heroin costs cents instead of dollars you don't have to spend your available time trying to steal money to buy it, risking arrest and jail as well as making innocent people victims of your cash-seeking crimes.
bcook 11y ago
Anecdotes are not a valid citation. Heroin is the most harmful drug, statistically, according to numerous studies.
- ryanlol 11y ago
  Not heroin, but a completely unknown substance presented as heroin that probably consists of around 30% heroin.
  - bcook 11y ago
    Heroin addiction is one of the most harmful documented drug-addictions. The need for heroin, physically and psychologically, is the driving force behind the social and personal damage attributed to heroin. People do not get addicted to non-narcotic adulterants and become prostitutes. A cutting agent like caffeine or sugar is probably the safest ingredient...
    - blumkvist 11y ago
      Caffeine? Sugar? Lol! How about mice poison? Reading wikipedia and actually knowing stuff about drugs are very different things. Please stop posting, you don't have a clue.
      - bcook 11y ago
        You focused on the least important part of what I wrote then resort to ad hominem attacks. There is no sensible conversation to be had here.
        blumkvist 11y ago
        I don't want to have a conversation with you. You don't know the first thing about the subject. Why would I want to talk to you about it?
        corin_ 11y ago
        I don't disagree with you that he's wrong, but arguing without proper arguments then insulting him doesn't really help the conversation. @bcook: Heroin, if it was 100% pure (e.g. as manufactured by a pharmacuticals company), and used with completely safe equipment (e.g. sterylised needles), and used at not-too-high dose levels, it would actually be pretty safe. It essentially has the same effect as morphine or oxycodone, both of which are prescribed legally (my dad has been on morphine for a few years, extended release so he doesn't get high.. but it also doesn't kill him). The biggest danger is indeed purity - if you think that "x" amount is the right dose for your tolerance (and tolerance not only varies based on how much a user has had before, but also on that person's body in the first place) but one batch you buy is y% pure and the next batch is 2y% pure, you can accidentally dose yourself twice as much as you are expecting and overdose. Of course overdose is possible with drugs where you completely know the strength - such as oxycontin pills - but with semi-sensible use it's a lot harder, since you actually know how much of the drug you're taking. Yes it can be addictive, but if you never over do it and can afford to keep buying clean drugs like oxycontin you're most likely going to be fine. The biggest risk with prescription painkillers like this is not that they'll kill you, but that you'll become addicted to them and, when you either can't get another prescription or can't afford your illegal purchases, you move onto heroin because it's much cheaper per dose. Cheaper per dose, but also less pure and therefore more likely to be dangerous. I personally wouldn't try heroin because I don't want to become dependant on something (other than tobacco..), but if it was completely pure then addition would be the only thing that scared me away from it, not fear of death from using it.

hoodoof 11y ago

Just one link after 10 second Google search: Fentanyl-linked heroin deaths part of larger drug overdose trend http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-08/news/bs-md-sun-investigates-fentanyl-20140208_1_heroin-overdoses-drug-overdoses-fentanyl-laced-heroin http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-08/news/bs-md-sun-i...

bcook 11y ago
How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure? Overdoses happen even with pure heroin. Also, I assumed "citation" would infer that a reputable book or scholarly white paper should be referenced, not a very short newspaper article. Though, we both seem to be unwavering in our views, so I am cool with stopping this back and forth. :)
- hoodoof 11y ago
  >> How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure I didn't say that. My point was that people can lead functional lives on heroin with families and jobs. If the heroin is impure, laced with dangerous chemicals or of unknown strength then the cutting agents can harm people or they may overdose. Clean heroin is free of harmful cutting agents, of known purity and not laced with other drugs. You mock the term "clean heroin" but that's what it is. You misread my original post.
  - bcook 11y ago
    I mock "clean heroin" because at it's purest, it is still the most harmful drug. More harmful than meth, crack, cocaine, etc, etc. I cited Wikipedia. You have still cited nothing of worth.
    - hoodoof 11y ago
      Can you compare psychotic violence of heroin addicts versus meth addicts? That's what I mean by harmful. Meth addicts are psychotically violent and are responsible for countless murders and attacks. Heroin addicts get smacked out and unconscious. Perhaps dangerous to themselves.