6 ms·

I'd really love if this were the case, but sadly it really isn't. The affect of US tech companies coming here has largely been a small-scale version of Palo Al

I'd really love if this were the case, but sadly it really isn't. The affect of US tech companies coming here has largely been a small-scale version of Palo Alto-esque gentrification of a small area of Dublin (docklands) and any improvements in standard of living being limited to a small white male tech elite. Overall poverty is up (we're dealing with a very serious recent homelessness crisis) and average standards of living have dropped significantly in the country otherwise and reported economic improvements in world news are typical of our conservative government's focus on primarily export-based GDP figures, etc. over actual progressive population-based data. I think on the other hand, politics aside, there is a definite strong movement away from the church at least, which I think is largely a lingering result of the various very public abuse scandals over the past few decades. Edit: That NPR article is interesting in its focus on Cork. I live in Dublin, so I can't really comment much anecdotally on Cork, but with the exception of Apple, almost all major US tech firms that have HQ-ed here (Google, Facebook, MS, Twitter, etc.) are Dublin-based, so it seems an unusual focus in that regard.

roymurdock 11y ago
Thanks for the inside perspective - hard to get a real sense of how a country is doing from GDP/economic indicators. Wishful thinking on my part that tech wealth would trickle down more effectively in Ireland than in the US. On the homelessness crisis: Amazing that housing prices in Dublin have jumped up 22.3% YoY. [1] What else do you see contributing to the rise in poverty/homelessness and the decline in living standards in Ireland? [1] http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Ireland/Price-History http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Ireland/Price-Hist...
- gearoidoc 11y ago
  Dublin is a different animal than the rest of Ireland because the country is very centralised there (despite some efforts to combat this). It would like measuring the average house price in the US by just measuring the BA. I can buy a house in my hometown which is well serviced by schools and more than the essentials for about €150k. The one thing that Ireland gets right is access to 3rd level education. I'm constantly floored by the amount of debt that students in North American and UK (or wherever else) pile up getting educated. I will concede that their standard of education is probably higher but, personal experience, I see very little difference in the average standard of graduate produced. Coming from a working class background, I was lucky enough to be on the grant system so would have received about €3.5k a year to attend college - it wasn't huge and I obviously had to work part time but it certainly helped. Anyway, the point I'm trying to arrive at is that the best way for a society to progress is via education and I think we're doing good (though it could be much better) at this right now.
  - maccard 11y ago
    Despite there not being any fees in IrelNd, you have to pay a student contribution fee (which as a grant receiver you were exempt from) which is currently 3.5k/year and set to continue rising. Really the grant gives you more like 7k/yr as you don't have to pay that fee (which had to be paid up front in one lump sun)
- rmc 11y ago
  House price rises have mostly been due to the near complete decimation of the housing construction market in recently years. About 10% of houses were completed compared to 10 years ago. There is very little supply and a pent up demand. Combine that with non-existant tenant protection, and a middle class who invested in property and want/need to see some improvement in their income.
igravious 11y ago
In Cork, big pharma (Pfizer, GSK, Johnson&Johnson) & some tech, Apple, EMC, Vmware, Amazon, Redhat. Hard to say why the sudden progressive turn in Irish politics. With the marriage equality referendum 1 in 3 voted against, so there is still 33% of the country that I can guarantee you would be very conservative. But yes, for what was once a deeply religious country there has been a seismic shift in culture. GenX is the generation where the shift first happened. I have seen the following reasons. Television (I'm not kidding), low-cost travel (Ryanair), 3rd-level education, Church scandals, ... Very hard to say why this political shift, frankly even though people in Ireland have been talking for years about the decriminalisation of cannabis (t the very least) and even though I felt it must happen some day I am still surprised. The supervised injection clinics is a great idea.
dbspin 11y ago
Describing the Dublin tech community as 'a small white male tech elite' is bizarre. Given the still tiny number of non-white people in Ireland, and the relative number in the tech industry, outside of the teaching hospitals the tech industry is probably the most ethnically diverse in the country. There's certainly a gender disparity, but given the relative ease of getting into tech (via Springboard and similar), this is likely a combination of legacy factors and relative lack of interest in STEM at university level. Sounds like you're importing a narrative from the US. Agreed on the lack of progress in poverty, social inequality is growing - in part as a result of the concentration of growth in the tech industry, as well as the stagnation of public sector wages and the slow removal of hiring freezes.
- lucideer 11y ago
  I live in Dublin and work in the tech industry here, so I'm not importing any narratives from anywhere else. The tiny number of non-white people in Ireland is ~9% of the population, not too much lower than the UK. There's also been a reasonable female uptake of STEM at third-level in recent years, in part due to deliberate initiatives to promote it. I get the anecdotal impression this may have translated into reducing imbalance in a few science/engineering-related fields (I could be wrong), but not really IT-related stuff seemingly.
  - dbspin 11y ago
    Ok, accepting first generation immigrants from developing nations, whats the level of 3rd level educated non white people living in Ireland? I'd bet it compares unfavourably with the number of non-white people working in tech here, given the massive number of non-Irish tech workers.
    - lucideer 11y ago
      Yeah, you are right there. The sufficiently-educated-plus-visa-holding population is probably going to be a bit less diverse than the wider general population alright.
anonymousDan 11y ago
Intel aren't in Dublin either (Leixlip + Limerick)
- lucideer 11y ago
  Leixlip's pretty much Dublin.

roymurdock 11y ago

Thanks for the inside perspective - hard to get a real sense of how a country is doing from GDP/economic indicators. Wishful thinking on my part that tech wealth would trickle down more effectively in Ireland than in the US. On the homelessness crisis: Amazing that housing prices in Dublin have jumped up 22.3% YoY. [1] What else do you see contributing to the rise in poverty/homelessness and the decline in living standards in Ireland? [1] http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Ireland/Price-History http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Ireland/Price-Hist...

gearoidoc 11y ago
Dublin is a different animal than the rest of Ireland because the country is very centralised there (despite some efforts to combat this). It would like measuring the average house price in the US by just measuring the BA. I can buy a house in my hometown which is well serviced by schools and more than the essentials for about €150k. The one thing that Ireland gets right is access to 3rd level education. I'm constantly floored by the amount of debt that students in North American and UK (or wherever else) pile up getting educated. I will concede that their standard of education is probably higher but, personal experience, I see very little difference in the average standard of graduate produced. Coming from a working class background, I was lucky enough to be on the grant system so would have received about €3.5k a year to attend college - it wasn't huge and I obviously had to work part time but it certainly helped. Anyway, the point I'm trying to arrive at is that the best way for a society to progress is via education and I think we're doing good (though it could be much better) at this right now.
- maccard 11y ago
  Despite there not being any fees in IrelNd, you have to pay a student contribution fee (which as a grant receiver you were exempt from) which is currently 3.5k/year and set to continue rising. Really the grant gives you more like 7k/yr as you don't have to pay that fee (which had to be paid up front in one lump sun)
rmc 11y ago
House price rises have mostly been due to the near complete decimation of the housing construction market in recently years. About 10% of houses were completed compared to 10 years ago. There is very little supply and a pent up demand. Combine that with non-existant tenant protection, and a middle class who invested in property and want/need to see some improvement in their income.

igravious 11y ago

In Cork, big pharma (Pfizer, GSK, Johnson&Johnson) & some tech, Apple, EMC, Vmware, Amazon, Redhat. Hard to say why the sudden progressive turn in Irish politics. With the marriage equality referendum 1 in 3 voted against, so there is still 33% of the country that I can guarantee you would be very conservative. But yes, for what was once a deeply religious country there has been a seismic shift in culture. GenX is the generation where the shift first happened. I have seen the following reasons. Television (I'm not kidding), low-cost travel (Ryanair), 3rd-level education, Church scandals, ... Very hard to say why this political shift, frankly even though people in Ireland have been talking for years about the decriminalisation of cannabis (t the very least) and even though I felt it must happen some day I am still surprised. The supervised injection clinics is a great idea.

dbspin 11y ago

Describing the Dublin tech community as 'a small white male tech elite' is bizarre. Given the still tiny number of non-white people in Ireland, and the relative number in the tech industry, outside of the teaching hospitals the tech industry is probably the most ethnically diverse in the country. There's certainly a gender disparity, but given the relative ease of getting into tech (via Springboard and similar), this is likely a combination of legacy factors and relative lack of interest in STEM at university level. Sounds like you're importing a narrative from the US. Agreed on the lack of progress in poverty, social inequality is growing - in part as a result of the concentration of growth in the tech industry, as well as the stagnation of public sector wages and the slow removal of hiring freezes.

lucideer 11y ago
I live in Dublin and work in the tech industry here, so I'm not importing any narratives from anywhere else. The tiny number of non-white people in Ireland is ~9% of the population, not too much lower than the UK. There's also been a reasonable female uptake of STEM at third-level in recent years, in part due to deliberate initiatives to promote it. I get the anecdotal impression this may have translated into reducing imbalance in a few science/engineering-related fields (I could be wrong), but not really IT-related stuff seemingly.
- dbspin 11y ago
  Ok, accepting first generation immigrants from developing nations, whats the level of 3rd level educated non white people living in Ireland? I'd bet it compares unfavourably with the number of non-white people working in tech here, given the massive number of non-Irish tech workers.
  - lucideer 11y ago
    Yeah, you are right there. The sufficiently-educated-plus-visa-holding population is probably going to be a bit less diverse than the wider general population alright.

anonymousDan 11y ago

Intel aren't in Dublin either (Leixlip + Limerick)

lucideer 11y ago
Leixlip's pretty much Dublin.