4 ms·

Ethanol stoves are actually great for this problem... very low emissions, and fuel that is easy and safe to store and can be produced locally. In many parts of

by bcg1 11y ago

Ethanol stoves are actually great for this problem... very low emissions, and fuel that is easy and safe to store and can be produced locally. In many parts of the world, there are abundant non-food sources of mash... kelp, mesquite seeds, cattails, etc... and community scale production is much more efficient than the bizarre government subsidized ethanol industry in the US that uses GE corn with that requires a lot of energy input and has a high energy cost for transportation to and from the centralized production facilities. I'm not sure how it is "undeveloped" countries but around here is quite illegal to make your own fuel in this way however... it is, after all, the "A" in BATF. It seems that without addressing such issues, the "clean" stoves will not be popular because locals would need to keep paying some "authority" (government or otherwise) for access to the fuel, and money is much more scarce than dung in many places.

panglott 11y ago
"the more complex stoves that run on electricity or burn liquid fuels typically cost more and require access to a steady and cheap supply of fuel, which often isn’t available in rural villages."
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  Are you claiming that rural villages will be unable to produce their own ethanol? In what parts of the world do you see that being a problem?
vonmoltke 11y ago
> I'm not sure how it is "undeveloped" countries but around here is quite illegal to make your own fuel in this way however... Not sure what you mean by "in this way", but it is quite legal to make ethanol fuel for your own use in the US.
- bcg1 11y ago
  You have to get a license from the BATF to do so, and you are limited to 10,000 gallons per year (which is plenty). To get the license you have to give them permission to enter your property without a warrant to inspect whenever they like, and you have to keep meticulous records to account for every gallon produced. By "in this way" I meant a means through which normal people can make their own fuel with a low barrier to entry and little or no risk of fines and/or jail.
reitanqild 11y ago
Ethanol has its own source of problems in many of these countries. Source: Share office with people selling biomass stoves.
clock_tower 11y ago
Would the ethanol generated here be conventional alcohol, more or less safe for humans to drink? This isn't meant as a leading question, it's genuine curiosity: regulations permitting, can you really brew alcoholic drinks from cattails? If so, this has fascinating implications; apparently much more of the plant world is edible than anyone has made use of so far. Not directly edible, of course, and the calories in alcohol are empty; but still, an interesting thought.
- bcg1 11y ago
  Yes, it is essentially moonshine. I'm not sure how cattail spirits would taste though. A word of caution however, the ethanol that you can buy for camping stoves and such is NOT the same thing... by law it is denatured (mixed with toxins to render unsafe for drinking) And cattails BTW are directly edible... the roots produce a lot of starch and can be cooked or ground into flour if that's your thing. Some of those ponds they grow in are pretty murky though, and you might want to make sure you're not near a septic system if try them :)
  - clock_tower 11y ago
    I wasn't thinking in terms of "I want to brew moonshine", but in terms of "could people make dietary use of things we don't think of as edible?". Fernand Braudel talked about cider as a serious competitor to beer in the 17th and 18th centuries, since making cider didn't mean going without bread; it sounds like other crops (and non-crops) could have been used similarly. But still, you answered my question with what I was asking; thank you!

by bcg1 11y ago

panglott 11y ago

"the more complex stoves that run on electricity or burn liquid fuels typically cost more and require access to a steady and cheap supply of fuel, which often isn’t available in rural villages."

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Are you claiming that rural villages will be unable to produce their own ethanol? In what parts of the world do you see that being a problem?

vonmoltke 11y ago

> I'm not sure how it is "undeveloped" countries but around here is quite illegal to make your own fuel in this way however... Not sure what you mean by "in this way", but it is quite legal to make ethanol fuel for your own use in the US.

bcg1 11y ago
You have to get a license from the BATF to do so, and you are limited to 10,000 gallons per year (which is plenty). To get the license you have to give them permission to enter your property without a warrant to inspect whenever they like, and you have to keep meticulous records to account for every gallon produced. By "in this way" I meant a means through which normal people can make their own fuel with a low barrier to entry and little or no risk of fines and/or jail.

reitanqild 11y ago

Ethanol has its own source of problems in many of these countries. Source: Share office with people selling biomass stoves.

clock_tower 11y ago

Would the ethanol generated here be conventional alcohol, more or less safe for humans to drink? This isn't meant as a leading question, it's genuine curiosity: regulations permitting, can you really brew alcoholic drinks from cattails? If so, this has fascinating implications; apparently much more of the plant world is edible than anyone has made use of so far. Not directly edible, of course, and the calories in alcohol are empty; but still, an interesting thought.

bcg1 11y ago
Yes, it is essentially moonshine. I'm not sure how cattail spirits would taste though. A word of caution however, the ethanol that you can buy for camping stoves and such is NOT the same thing... by law it is denatured (mixed with toxins to render unsafe for drinking) And cattails BTW are directly edible... the roots produce a lot of starch and can be cooked or ground into flour if that's your thing. Some of those ponds they grow in are pretty murky though, and you might want to make sure you're not near a septic system if try them :)
- clock_tower 11y ago
  I wasn't thinking in terms of "I want to brew moonshine", but in terms of "could people make dietary use of things we don't think of as edible?". Fernand Braudel talked about cider as a serious competitor to beer in the 17th and 18th centuries, since making cider didn't mean going without bread; it sounds like other crops (and non-crops) could have been used similarly. But still, you answered my question with what I was asking; thank you!