3 ms·

I agree. The problem is that the right wing (and honestly, the Democratic party too) are going to say that if you support a negative income tax or basic income,

I agree. The problem is that the right wing (and honestly, the Democratic party too) are going to say that if you support a negative income tax or basic income, you are a communist/socialist/radical/student who is unemployed/poor and doesn't want to work hard (perpetually) to earn your keep, which they view as necessary to be eligible for benefits in society. The American work ethic is to compete viciously for chances to work hard, for too long, forever, for little in return. It's an unmitigated failure, but people fear change and cling to tradition.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago
No! They American work ethic has historically been work hard to provide for your family because that's ... what ... you ... do! It is failing because greed has become the norm. People's attitudes have gone from help your family and friends to help yourself. It has moved away from community to individualism. That's what's changed. When Andrew decimated south Florida people were in dire straights. Everyone wanted to help. When the convoys of utility workers, food and water were allowed to go in finally, people pulled off the side of the highway and cheered and wept because, finally, help was on its way. Contrast that to the bumbling eff up that was Katrina. People were falling over themselves trying to blame everyone else for that. That's the difference now. How we got this way, I don't know. But it's disgusting. A basic income doesn't fix this. We need an attitude adjustment in this country.
- jdmichal 11y ago
  Employer-employee loyalties have also disintegrated during that same time period. I phrase it that way specifically because it is a two-way street, and I haven't done the research to know exactly how it broke down. As an employee, who stay with a company that doesn't invest in my future? As an employer, why invest in an employee that's just going to leave at the first higher offer? Lack of trust and loyalty is a self-reinforcing pattern that must be broken by someone taking the first step, knowing that they might get burned.
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    Agree. But I don't think that mutual lack of trust between employers and employees can be fixed, primarily for one reason - executive compensation (which has multiple repercussions): Many executives are incentivized to maximize short-term "results" at the cost of long term strategy. Once the reality bites (stock is falling, due to lower revenues, due to outdated products), they quickly come up with a "turnaround plan". The stress is on "quickly", so there is no time to re-train existing workforce, which is fired and new people with required skills come in (at a huge price of recruiting costs, ramp-up time, etc). Executive compensation should not be tied so much to the stock price, as it leads to pump-and-dump tactics, killing companies in the long term and doing a lot of harm to employer-employee relations as well.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  It is failing because greed has become the norm. People's attitudes have gone from help your family and friends to help yourself. It has moved away from community to individualism. That's what's changed. I thought the United States was all about rugged individualism and self-interest? Either way, individualism is not the problem, and has always been a staple of American life. Nor is it "greed" (which has always been present), unless you also define spontaneous order brought by catallaxy to be a form of greed. The issue is the Protestant work ethic has always been nothing but a feel-good tale that is obviously and demonstrably a plain falsehood, or at best an oversimplification. Of course, it's a part of cultural identity and gives people the fuzzies, so it remains believed due to the illusion of control it brings. Also because people are inclined into thinking in terms of the just-world fallacy, again so as to maintain illusion of control and teleological certainty.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

No! They American work ethic has historically been work hard to provide for your family because that's ... what ... you ... do! It is failing because greed has become the norm. People's attitudes have gone from help your family and friends to help yourself. It has moved away from community to individualism. That's what's changed. When Andrew decimated south Florida people were in dire straights. Everyone wanted to help. When the convoys of utility workers, food and water were allowed to go in finally, people pulled off the side of the highway and cheered and wept because, finally, help was on its way. Contrast that to the bumbling eff up that was Katrina. People were falling over themselves trying to blame everyone else for that. That's the difference now. How we got this way, I don't know. But it's disgusting. A basic income doesn't fix this. We need an attitude adjustment in this country.

jdmichal 11y ago
Employer-employee loyalties have also disintegrated during that same time period. I phrase it that way specifically because it is a two-way street, and I haven't done the research to know exactly how it broke down. As an employee, who stay with a company that doesn't invest in my future? As an employer, why invest in an employee that's just going to leave at the first higher offer? Lack of trust and loyalty is a self-reinforcing pattern that must be broken by someone taking the first step, knowing that they might get burned.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Agree. But I don't think that mutual lack of trust between employers and employees can be fixed, primarily for one reason - executive compensation (which has multiple repercussions): Many executives are incentivized to maximize short-term "results" at the cost of long term strategy. Once the reality bites (stock is falling, due to lower revenues, due to outdated products), they quickly come up with a "turnaround plan". The stress is on "quickly", so there is no time to re-train existing workforce, which is fired and new people with required skills come in (at a huge price of recruiting costs, ramp-up time, etc). Executive compensation should not be tied so much to the stock price, as it leads to pump-and-dump tactics, killing companies in the long term and doing a lot of harm to employer-employee relations as well.
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
It is failing because greed has become the norm. People's attitudes have gone from help your family and friends to help yourself. It has moved away from community to individualism. That's what's changed. I thought the United States was all about rugged individualism and self-interest? Either way, individualism is not the problem, and has always been a staple of American life. Nor is it "greed" (which has always been present), unless you also define spontaneous order brought by catallaxy to be a form of greed. The issue is the Protestant work ethic has always been nothing but a feel-good tale that is obviously and demonstrably a plain falsehood, or at best an oversimplification. Of course, it's a part of cultural identity and gives people the fuzzies, so it remains believed due to the illusion of control it brings. Also because people are inclined into thinking in terms of the just-world fallacy, again so as to maintain illusion of control and teleological certainty.