5 ms·

Yeah, I can imagine how it would be extremely stressful and life-shortening to be perpetually worried about money. Wealth inequality has been rising for a very

Yeah, I can imagine how it would be extremely stressful and life-shortening to be perpetually worried about money. Wealth inequality has been rising for a very long time, with all but the highest income brackets stagnating. This isn't sustainable, it's literally causing the serfs to be so stressed that they die or kill themselves because of how few resources they get. We need at least some of these people alive and functioning if our society is to continue.

jazzyk 11y ago
The two - very telling - numbers to explain worries about money: - 62.4% Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate - the lowest in 38 years! (http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000) - 9M people on Disability Insurance, double the number in 1995 and six times the number in 1970 (http://fortune.com/2015/10/08/disability-insurance-unemployment-great-recession http://fortune.com/2015/10/08/disability-insurance-unemploym...)
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Forgot to say that these numbers are rarely ever mentioned by the mainstream media (MSM), not to spoil the back-slapping narrative of politicians and their sycophants "See? We stabilized the economy and saved you from a depression" (at the cost of $1T new debt/year).
  - cryoshon 11y ago
    Not sure why you got downvoted for this, you are entirely right regarding the shyness of the MSM to discuss the actual state of the economy. Part of it is due to the perception of the economy creating the reality of the economy, but it's also much more in line with the government to say that things are rosy.
  - morgante 11y ago
    > Forgot to say that these numbers are rarely ever mentioned by the mainstream media (MSM) I see despairing articles about the state of the American middle class in the media all the time. In fact, this very article is from the mainstream media.
    - jazzyk 11y ago
      Not the headline news, which is what most people consume. There ARE despairing articles to be found, but you need to reach out a bit to find them.
      - morgante 11y ago
        I certainly don't go out of my way to find despairing articles, yet I come across them all the time.
        pdeuchler 11y ago
        You're commenting on Hacker News. Safe to say you're in at least some sort of information bubble that's very atypical to the average American.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  >62.4% Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate - the lowest in 38 years! You can't really have it both ways. We can't have automation, competitiveness, efficiency, a move way from the consumerist lifestyle, etc and expect 1970's style employment levels. Not to mention, at lot of the jobs from that era were back-breaking and dangerous manufacturing jobs. These weren't desirable jobs and many of the people who had them did their best to work their way out of them via retraining, college, moving to management, etc. Keeping everyone employed is just a fool's errand this late in the capitalism game. More "make work" jobs isn't the solution here. Ideally, this is the narrative we need to start spreading. Things like minimum guaranteed income shouldn't be shameful concepts to push.
  - cryoshon 11y ago
    I agree. The problem is that the right wing (and honestly, the Democratic party too) are going to say that if you support a negative income tax or basic income, you are a communist/socialist/radical/student who is unemployed/poor and doesn't want to work hard (perpetually) to earn your keep, which they view as necessary to be eligible for benefits in society. The American work ethic is to compete viciously for chances to work hard, for too long, forever, for little in return. It's an unmitigated failure, but people fear change and cling to tradition.
    - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
      No! They American work ethic has historically been work hard to provide for your family because that's ... what ... you ... do! It is failing because greed has become the norm. People's attitudes have gone from help your family and friends to help yourself. It has moved away from community to individualism. That's what's changed. When Andrew decimated south Florida people were in dire straights. Everyone wanted to help. When the convoys of utility workers, food and water were allowed to go in finally, people pulled off the side of the highway and cheered and wept because, finally, help was on its way. Contrast that to the bumbling eff up that was Katrina. People were falling over themselves trying to blame everyone else for that. That's the difference now. How we got this way, I don't know. But it's disgusting. A basic income doesn't fix this. We need an attitude adjustment in this country.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ridgeguy 11y ago
I think rising wealth inequality is underestimated as a cause of suicide in the US. So many statistics indicate that financial stress is rising on the 99%, with no little change in sight. I suspect large numbers of American lives are being shortened, even if not by outright suicide, through diseases caused by constant stress, mostly economic.
- cryoshon 11y ago
  Agreed entirely. It's not impossible for the media outlets to obliquely admit this (either via articles like the OP or other "wow this economy sucks" style articles) but getting an article which synthesizes both the cause and the effect into one package is hard because it's perceived as pessimistic and contrary to the "the US economy is strong" propaganda. People feel that things were better 10 years ago. They were still getting squeezed then, too, but it wasn't nearly as bad as today. I predict that suicide/mental illness rates for people entering their 30s are quite poor right now as well, given the student loan burden and lack of traction regarding jobs or wealth generation.
- vixen99 11y ago
  What has inequality got to do with it? The 24/7 issue is whether people have a decent life day to day. Why is the existence of insanely rich Mrs X a cause of suicide? Of course there is an issue, especially in the US, whereby wealth translates into power. No more office boy to president! There seems to be reluctance to tackle this but that's up to Americans. Assuming you believe inequality is a bad thing in itself, you can only counter it by taking money from the rich. One does wonder however whether taking money from a hard-working entrepreneur and giving even more of it to an organization that has run up astronomical debts already (most Western governments) - to dole out to others is such a smart move. Opportunities here for fresh thinking. And since when has anybody really benefited in the long run from being given money. Give me a multiple of my income and I'll down tools and do something interesting but not necessarily economically productive.
  - ridgeguy 11y ago
    Only with regard to your first three sentences: It isn't wealth inequality or the existence of "insanely rich" per se, it's the ever-growing sector of Americans who are excluded from wealth and who no longer see any realistic hope of changing that through their own efforts. It's the latter view that is a growing suicide motivator, IMHO.

jazzyk 11y ago

The two - very telling - numbers to explain worries about money: - 62.4% Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate - the lowest in 38 years! (http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000) - 9M people on Disability Insurance, double the number in 1995 and six times the number in 1970 (http://fortune.com/2015/10/08/disability-insurance-unemployment-great-recession http://fortune.com/2015/10/08/disability-insurance-unemploym...)

jazzyk 11y ago
Forgot to say that these numbers are rarely ever mentioned by the mainstream media (MSM), not to spoil the back-slapping narrative of politicians and their sycophants "See? We stabilized the economy and saved you from a depression" (at the cost of $1T new debt/year).
- cryoshon 11y ago
  Not sure why you got downvoted for this, you are entirely right regarding the shyness of the MSM to discuss the actual state of the economy. Part of it is due to the perception of the economy creating the reality of the economy, but it's also much more in line with the government to say that things are rosy.
- morgante 11y ago
  > Forgot to say that these numbers are rarely ever mentioned by the mainstream media (MSM) I see despairing articles about the state of the American middle class in the media all the time. In fact, this very article is from the mainstream media.
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    Not the headline news, which is what most people consume. There ARE despairing articles to be found, but you need to reach out a bit to find them.
    - morgante 11y ago
      I certainly don't go out of my way to find despairing articles, yet I come across them all the time.
      - pdeuchler 11y ago
        You're commenting on Hacker News. Safe to say you're in at least some sort of information bubble that's very atypical to the average American.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>62.4% Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate - the lowest in 38 years! You can't really have it both ways. We can't have automation, competitiveness, efficiency, a move way from the consumerist lifestyle, etc and expect 1970's style employment levels. Not to mention, at lot of the jobs from that era were back-breaking and dangerous manufacturing jobs. These weren't desirable jobs and many of the people who had them did their best to work their way out of them via retraining, college, moving to management, etc. Keeping everyone employed is just a fool's errand this late in the capitalism game. More "make work" jobs isn't the solution here. Ideally, this is the narrative we need to start spreading. Things like minimum guaranteed income shouldn't be shameful concepts to push.
- cryoshon 11y ago
  I agree. The problem is that the right wing (and honestly, the Democratic party too) are going to say that if you support a negative income tax or basic income, you are a communist/socialist/radical/student who is unemployed/poor and doesn't want to work hard (perpetually) to earn your keep, which they view as necessary to be eligible for benefits in society. The American work ethic is to compete viciously for chances to work hard, for too long, forever, for little in return. It's an unmitigated failure, but people fear change and cling to tradition.
  - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
    No! They American work ethic has historically been work hard to provide for your family because that's ... what ... you ... do! It is failing because greed has become the norm. People's attitudes have gone from help your family and friends to help yourself. It has moved away from community to individualism. That's what's changed. When Andrew decimated south Florida people were in dire straights. Everyone wanted to help. When the convoys of utility workers, food and water were allowed to go in finally, people pulled off the side of the highway and cheered and wept because, finally, help was on its way. Contrast that to the bumbling eff up that was Katrina. People were falling over themselves trying to blame everyone else for that. That's the difference now. How we got this way, I don't know. But it's disgusting. A basic income doesn't fix this. We need an attitude adjustment in this country.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ridgeguy 11y ago

I think rising wealth inequality is underestimated as a cause of suicide in the US. So many statistics indicate that financial stress is rising on the 99%, with no little change in sight. I suspect large numbers of American lives are being shortened, even if not by outright suicide, through diseases caused by constant stress, mostly economic.

cryoshon 11y ago
Agreed entirely. It's not impossible for the media outlets to obliquely admit this (either via articles like the OP or other "wow this economy sucks" style articles) but getting an article which synthesizes both the cause and the effect into one package is hard because it's perceived as pessimistic and contrary to the "the US economy is strong" propaganda. People feel that things were better 10 years ago. They were still getting squeezed then, too, but it wasn't nearly as bad as today. I predict that suicide/mental illness rates for people entering their 30s are quite poor right now as well, given the student loan burden and lack of traction regarding jobs or wealth generation.
vixen99 11y ago
What has inequality got to do with it? The 24/7 issue is whether people have a decent life day to day. Why is the existence of insanely rich Mrs X a cause of suicide? Of course there is an issue, especially in the US, whereby wealth translates into power. No more office boy to president! There seems to be reluctance to tackle this but that's up to Americans. Assuming you believe inequality is a bad thing in itself, you can only counter it by taking money from the rich. One does wonder however whether taking money from a hard-working entrepreneur and giving even more of it to an organization that has run up astronomical debts already (most Western governments) - to dole out to others is such a smart move. Opportunities here for fresh thinking. And since when has anybody really benefited in the long run from being given money. Give me a multiple of my income and I'll down tools and do something interesting but not necessarily economically productive.
- ridgeguy 11y ago
  Only with regard to your first three sentences: It isn't wealth inequality or the existence of "insanely rich" per se, it's the ever-growing sector of Americans who are excluded from wealth and who no longer see any realistic hope of changing that through their own efforts. It's the latter view that is a growing suicide motivator, IMHO.