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Please be a troll. I know people all over the world still have thoughts like this, but I thought people on hacker news are smarter than that. #1: Things weren'

Please be a troll. I know people all over the world still have thoughts like this, but I thought people on hacker news are smarter than that. #1: Things weren't "better" in colonial times anymore than they were better in Apartheid-era South Africa or Jim Crow-era America. Hell, we can even go back to Slavery-era America. Sure, things were more peaceful and ordered. At the expense of the subjugation of a significant percentage of the population. You can absolutely attain peace and prosperity at the expense of the freedom of your citizens. We call that Fascism. #2: Most of the problems that occur in post-colonial hot-spots are not there because the European colonial administrations left. They are there because THEY WERE THERE IN THE FIRST place. The Europeans: * Deliberately destablized peaceful areas so that they would be the one to introduce order * Divided and conquered previously peaceful tribes by boosting support for one in order to attain power (see: Rwanda) * Toppled democratically elected governments because of fear of communistic populistic ideas that threatened wealthy western industrialists * Created borders abstractly - merging peoples that did not want to be together and dividing those that did. Western countries would not be this far ahead of the rest of the world without decades if not centuries of exploitation. And maybe, just maybe, if progress happened at a more natural rate we would have been able to learn some more sustainable practices. Maybe we wouldn't have the internet or smart phones for another century, but maybe we wouldn't have been responsible for The Sixth Extinction.

LoSboccacc 11y ago
I agree with everything but the blanket use of fascism: I wouldn't say pre-civil war america was fascist because of slavery (nor I'm saying slavery is good for modern democratic countries of course)
- deanCommie 11y ago
  That is true, and I should clarify: The only way to achieve the same peace and stability that existed in past societies with socially accepted discrimination TODAY is through fascism.
douche 11y ago
What's a "natural rate of progress"? I think that's a strawman. Massive deforestation is not a new thing, nor is hunting and destroying the habitats of species to extinction. Nor does it necessarily have anything to do with Western civilization. Like I said, obviously, colonialism is bad, m'kay. But, if you're going to impose a colonial administration, you can't just pull up stakes and remove the bulk of the machinery and personnel of the old administration, and expect things to work out well. I think we have at this point plenty of evidence that turning the keys over to a former colonial population that hasn't nurtured parliamentary ideals and institutions is as likely to end in warlordism, genocide, rampant corruption and repression, as a functioning, liberal state. Also, the administration of V.O.C. and subsequent Dutch colony had as long a continuous existence as any of the petty sultanates and warlords that exploited the area before them. It's not like it was a bed of roses for the common man or woman living under the rule of the pre-colonial native kingdoms.

LoSboccacc 11y ago

I agree with everything but the blanket use of fascism: I wouldn't say pre-civil war america was fascist because of slavery (nor I'm saying slavery is good for modern democratic countries of course)

deanCommie 11y ago
That is true, and I should clarify: The only way to achieve the same peace and stability that existed in past societies with socially accepted discrimination TODAY is through fascism.

douche 11y ago

What's a "natural rate of progress"? I think that's a strawman. Massive deforestation is not a new thing, nor is hunting and destroying the habitats of species to extinction. Nor does it necessarily have anything to do with Western civilization. Like I said, obviously, colonialism is bad, m'kay. But, if you're going to impose a colonial administration, you can't just pull up stakes and remove the bulk of the machinery and personnel of the old administration, and expect things to work out well. I think we have at this point plenty of evidence that turning the keys over to a former colonial population that hasn't nurtured parliamentary ideals and institutions is as likely to end in warlordism, genocide, rampant corruption and repression, as a functioning, liberal state. Also, the administration of V.O.C. and subsequent Dutch colony had as long a continuous existence as any of the petty sultanates and warlords that exploited the area before them. It's not like it was a bed of roses for the common man or woman living under the rule of the pre-colonial native kingdoms.