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James Fallows of The Atlantic wrote a lot about Japan in the 1990s, and he had this great observation. In Japan you drive to the station and sit in the car whi

by jefurii 11y ago

James Fallows of The Atlantic wrote a lot about Japan in the 1990s, and he had this great observation. In Japan you drive to the station and sit in the car while several people fill your tank, wash your windows, and do other busywork. It seems like a huge waste and makes gas cost more. We know how to do things better and more efficiently in the US. But in the US those same young people are sitting at home unemployed.

icebraining 11y ago
But is it true? Does it lead to lower unemployment, all else being equal?
Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
>In Japan you drive to the station and sit in the car while several people fill your tank, wash your windows, and do other busywork. It seems like a huge waste and makes gas cost more. I was just in elementary school in the 90s, so I didn't drive, but I don't recall this sort of service at gas stations in Japan. I do recall gas being much more expensive at Japanese gas stations that what you'd see on American military bases. Am I misremembering? This was in Okinawa. >We know how to do things better and more efficiently in the US. But in the US those same young people are sitting at home unemployed. We know how to do certain things more efficiently in the US. We are terrible at running our transit systems and intercity rail systems as compared to the Japanese. Japanese roads are generally in better condition than American ones. Our laws have mandated sprawl in many localities decreasing the efficiency of our infrastructure--from sewer lines to roads to transit--causing great environmental and economic harm. Of course, there is a dark side to Japan. Rampant age discrimination everywhere. Disposable housing. A 'justice' system with a 99% conviction rate. Clinging to fax machines for hotel reservations when a simple Web form would be more efficient.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  > Clinging to fax machines for hotel reservations when a simple Web form would be more efficient. Frankly i don't know what is more complicated, given that with a web form you have one computer talking to another, several exchanges of data, and computing of same (request form, transfer form, render form, transfer inputs). It may look simpler once the form is on screen, but the processes behind the scene seems no simpler than fill out a sheet of paper and stick it in the machine.
  - Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
    > Frankly i don't know what is more complicated, given that with a web form you have one computer talking to another, several exchanges of data, and computing of same (request form, transfer form, render form, transfer inputs). With a fax machine you also have two computers talking to one another: the fax machines. Then, after the two computers talk and deliver a low quality copy of a document using a very slow communication mechanism that doesn't have any encryption, a person then must take the contents of the document and input this into a computer system. If the document is filled out incorrectly--for instance, a name is missing--the data entry person has to communicate with the original submitter this mistake. There are also the accessibility issues inherent to the medium of paper. How difficult is it for a blind man to fill out a paper form? With a Web form, users can check themselves whether or not rooms are available. The form can determine if there are errors before it is submitted so no further communication needs to be made. It can be built in an accessible manner so that the blind can use it. Even people without the use of their hands can use it given text to speech technology today. Encryption can be added to the process, no paper or ink is used (reducing the cost of the transaction on both ends), and no landline (or access to a landline) is required on the user's end. Even a very simple form submission system that does nothing but replicate the fax machine form would still be better than the fax just due to the ability to encrypt the communication and accessibility issues.
JoeAltmaier 11y ago
There was some story about the Japanese diplomat to the US before the war, was driving in the hills around San Francisco. He came upon two guys building a road: one in a truck dumping rock, one with a bulldozer. In Japan, that would have been 50 people with baskets and donkeys moving gravel. He wrote a description back to his bosses, saying something like "It would be suicide to challenge the US industrial machine". Too bad they didn't listen.
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  Admiral Yamamoto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto) who was educated in the US, was against Japan declaring war with the USA for similar reasons. He had seen enough of our industrial production to realize we could build ships and planes faster than the Japanese could. His statement, "I can run wild for six months but after that I have no expectation of success." was predicated on this.
greggman 11y ago
Or you know, Oregon (and New Jersey?) where it's illegal to pump your own gas so an attendant always has to do it. Nothing special about Japan there.

by jefurii 11y ago

icebraining 11y ago

But is it true? Does it lead to lower unemployment, all else being equal?

Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago

>In Japan you drive to the station and sit in the car while several people fill your tank, wash your windows, and do other busywork. It seems like a huge waste and makes gas cost more. I was just in elementary school in the 90s, so I didn't drive, but I don't recall this sort of service at gas stations in Japan. I do recall gas being much more expensive at Japanese gas stations that what you'd see on American military bases. Am I misremembering? This was in Okinawa. >We know how to do things better and more efficiently in the US. But in the US those same young people are sitting at home unemployed. We know how to do certain things more efficiently in the US. We are terrible at running our transit systems and intercity rail systems as compared to the Japanese. Japanese roads are generally in better condition than American ones. Our laws have mandated sprawl in many localities decreasing the efficiency of our infrastructure--from sewer lines to roads to transit--causing great environmental and economic harm. Of course, there is a dark side to Japan. Rampant age discrimination everywhere. Disposable housing. A 'justice' system with a 99% conviction rate. Clinging to fax machines for hotel reservations when a simple Web form would be more efficient.

digi_owl 11y ago
> Clinging to fax machines for hotel reservations when a simple Web form would be more efficient. Frankly i don't know what is more complicated, given that with a web form you have one computer talking to another, several exchanges of data, and computing of same (request form, transfer form, render form, transfer inputs). It may look simpler once the form is on screen, but the processes behind the scene seems no simpler than fill out a sheet of paper and stick it in the machine.
- Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
  > Frankly i don't know what is more complicated, given that with a web form you have one computer talking to another, several exchanges of data, and computing of same (request form, transfer form, render form, transfer inputs). With a fax machine you also have two computers talking to one another: the fax machines. Then, after the two computers talk and deliver a low quality copy of a document using a very slow communication mechanism that doesn't have any encryption, a person then must take the contents of the document and input this into a computer system. If the document is filled out incorrectly--for instance, a name is missing--the data entry person has to communicate with the original submitter this mistake. There are also the accessibility issues inherent to the medium of paper. How difficult is it for a blind man to fill out a paper form? With a Web form, users can check themselves whether or not rooms are available. The form can determine if there are errors before it is submitted so no further communication needs to be made. It can be built in an accessible manner so that the blind can use it. Even people without the use of their hands can use it given text to speech technology today. Encryption can be added to the process, no paper or ink is used (reducing the cost of the transaction on both ends), and no landline (or access to a landline) is required on the user's end. Even a very simple form submission system that does nothing but replicate the fax machine form would still be better than the fax just due to the ability to encrypt the communication and accessibility issues.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

There was some story about the Japanese diplomat to the US before the war, was driving in the hills around San Francisco. He came upon two guys building a road: one in a truck dumping rock, one with a bulldozer. In Japan, that would have been 50 people with baskets and donkeys moving gravel. He wrote a description back to his bosses, saying something like "It would be suicide to challenge the US industrial machine". Too bad they didn't listen.

HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
Admiral Yamamoto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto) who was educated in the US, was against Japan declaring war with the USA for similar reasons. He had seen enough of our industrial production to realize we could build ships and planes faster than the Japanese could. His statement, "I can run wild for six months but after that I have no expectation of success." was predicated on this.

greggman 11y ago

Or you know, Oregon (and New Jersey?) where it's illegal to pump your own gas so an attendant always has to do it. Nothing special about Japan there.