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I do not have time to read this bag of words but I searched for the word "chimney" and I did not find it. See, there is your problem and a big fat hint for a s

I do not have time to read this bag of words but I searched for the word "chimney" and I did not find it. See, there is your problem and a big fat hint for a solution. Most countries in northern hemisphere solved this problem more than century ago and it amazes me how this solution is not even mentioned once.

intopieces 11y ago
Lack of research and cultural context is the reason the plans proposed in the article failed to begin with. You fell in a similar trap, it seems.
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  What in the culture anywhere prevents installation of a chimney? And if it does how is the ONLY reasonable response "your culture sucks, build it anyway so you stop inhaling actual bull shit"?
cc438 11y ago
These populations aren't mentally incompetent, they use chimneys. The issue is that chimney's aren't 100% efficient and only remove the pollution from the home, not the surrounding environment. The pollution becomes pervasive when an entire city of 100,000+ people is cooking with biomass fuel. Your chimney's exhaust is just another person's air when it's as concentrated as you'd find in places like those described in the article.
- clock_tower 11y ago
  Look at the woman in the article picture: she's not using a chimney, and she has to squat to cook. German women were cooking standing up (building fires on raised stone platforms), with chimneys to vent away smoke, in the 17th century. (See Fernand Braudel, _The Structures of Everyday Life_.) Draw your own conclusions: pathological loyalty to tradition or lack of imagination; or severe lack of capital and calories; or what?
  - panglott 11y ago
    This comment made me think of the Japanese kamado or the traditional Russian stove, but see this discussion of the Lorena adobe stove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_stove#Lorena_adobe_stove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_stove#Lorena_adobe_stove One problem is that ceramic stoves with a large thermal mass may take a lot more fuel to fire. In colder northern regions with plentiful fuel, the high thermal mass is an advantage because it can help keep the house warm. But in a tropical setting, open indoor fires may be more efficient at quickly heating food, especially when deforestation is a problem.
    - clock_tower 11y ago
      What Braudel discussed was an assembly with an oven underneath, and a raised hearth on top. You didn't have to heat the stove -- just build a fire on the top surface (with a chimney and smoke hood directly above), and cook with that.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- eveningcoffee 11y ago
  * Your chimney's exhaust is just another person's air when it's as concentrated as you'd find in places like those described in the article.* This is true but does not change anything as even now the exhaust would get out of the building, just more inefficiently. It is staying likely closer to the ground for longer too. Of course for long term solution a concentrated and well filtered power plant with an accessible grid would be a best solution. But even then an exhaust hood above the cooking place is needed.
- panglott 11y ago
  Went camping at a popular local park on 4th of July weekend. As it turns out, a hundred or so charcoal cooking fires will blanket a whole region with a thick haze even if they are all outside to begin with =/
  - eveningcoffee 11y ago
    Yes, this will happen and I am not arguing that it would not happen. Chimney has two effects mainly: exhaust to the outside and above the buildings such that the wind can dilute it enough.
DanAndersen 11y ago
I am interested to learn what exactly prevents the use of chimneys, since it does sound like it'd be helpful. A tangentially-related but nonetheless interesting video of a guy making a hut with chimney from scratch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL3sho1CpkI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL3sho1CpkI
Retric 11y ago
There is an actual physics reason for this. Chimney's work because a column of hot air rises which sucks in more air. When building a fire they take a while to work because there filled with cold air and they remove the smoke's heat. Which is why it's easy to fill a room with smoke when starting a fire. In cold areas where you generally keep a stove running most of the day and produce significant heat this works really well. In hot places where your trying to use the smallest fire possible they don't work very well. Further, they generally work better the taller they are which gets expensive. Ideally you want several vertical feet between the entrance and exit. Though there are ways to shortcut this, such as the blower over many stoves in the US. PS: A solar powered exhaust fan could help, but IMO building an actual electric grid is probably better than a long list of solar powered devices. And at high density's your just exchanging smoky air with all your neighbors which has limited value.

intopieces 11y ago

Lack of research and cultural context is the reason the plans proposed in the article failed to begin with. You fell in a similar trap, it seems.

FussyZeus 11y ago
What in the culture anywhere prevents installation of a chimney? And if it does how is the ONLY reasonable response "your culture sucks, build it anyway so you stop inhaling actual bull shit"?

cc438 11y ago

These populations aren't mentally incompetent, they use chimneys. The issue is that chimney's aren't 100% efficient and only remove the pollution from the home, not the surrounding environment. The pollution becomes pervasive when an entire city of 100,000+ people is cooking with biomass fuel. Your chimney's exhaust is just another person's air when it's as concentrated as you'd find in places like those described in the article.

clock_tower 11y ago
Look at the woman in the article picture: she's not using a chimney, and she has to squat to cook. German women were cooking standing up (building fires on raised stone platforms), with chimneys to vent away smoke, in the 17th century. (See Fernand Braudel, _The Structures of Everyday Life_.) Draw your own conclusions: pathological loyalty to tradition or lack of imagination; or severe lack of capital and calories; or what?
- panglott 11y ago
  This comment made me think of the Japanese kamado or the traditional Russian stove, but see this discussion of the Lorena adobe stove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_stove#Lorena_adobe_stove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_stove#Lorena_adobe_stove One problem is that ceramic stoves with a large thermal mass may take a lot more fuel to fire. In colder northern regions with plentiful fuel, the high thermal mass is an advantage because it can help keep the house warm. But in a tropical setting, open indoor fires may be more efficient at quickly heating food, especially when deforestation is a problem.
  - clock_tower 11y ago
    What Braudel discussed was an assembly with an oven underneath, and a raised hearth on top. You didn't have to heat the stove -- just build a fire on the top surface (with a chimney and smoke hood directly above), and cook with that.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
eveningcoffee 11y ago
* Your chimney's exhaust is just another person's air when it's as concentrated as you'd find in places like those described in the article.* This is true but does not change anything as even now the exhaust would get out of the building, just more inefficiently. It is staying likely closer to the ground for longer too. Of course for long term solution a concentrated and well filtered power plant with an accessible grid would be a best solution. But even then an exhaust hood above the cooking place is needed.
panglott 11y ago
Went camping at a popular local park on 4th of July weekend. As it turns out, a hundred or so charcoal cooking fires will blanket a whole region with a thick haze even if they are all outside to begin with =/
- eveningcoffee 11y ago
  Yes, this will happen and I am not arguing that it would not happen. Chimney has two effects mainly: exhaust to the outside and above the buildings such that the wind can dilute it enough.

DanAndersen 11y ago

I am interested to learn what exactly prevents the use of chimneys, since it does sound like it'd be helpful. A tangentially-related but nonetheless interesting video of a guy making a hut with chimney from scratch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL3sho1CpkI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL3sho1CpkI

Retric 11y ago

There is an actual physics reason for this. Chimney's work because a column of hot air rises which sucks in more air. When building a fire they take a while to work because there filled with cold air and they remove the smoke's heat. Which is why it's easy to fill a room with smoke when starting a fire. In cold areas where you generally keep a stove running most of the day and produce significant heat this works really well. In hot places where your trying to use the smallest fire possible they don't work very well. Further, they generally work better the taller they are which gets expensive. Ideally you want several vertical feet between the entrance and exit. Though there are ways to shortcut this, such as the blower over many stoves in the US. PS: A solar powered exhaust fan could help, but IMO building an actual electric grid is probably better than a long list of solar powered devices. And at high density's your just exchanging smoky air with all your neighbors which has limited value.