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Why is the world looking away? Indonesia is a sovereign nation, we can't tell them how to manage their natural resources. Well we can tell them but they won't l

Why is the world looking away? Indonesia is a sovereign nation, we can't tell them how to manage their natural resources. Well we can tell them but they won't listen. If we did, they could point that finger right back at us and ask us what happened to our forests and peat? Uhm, we chopped it down and burned it all before Indonesia was founded. But you shouldn't do that.

bkor 11y ago
That's an amazingly simplistic answer. Burning is one way to ensure you have really cheap palm oil.. Most of the palm oil demand is foreign, it is NOT Indonesia making it purely for themselves. For one, Indonesia should have rules banning the burning practice. AFAIK, they have been offered money to combat the need for burning (as compensation) and they ignored these offers (probably reputation thing). Secondly, other countries should enforce that companies ensure that the palm oil is produced in a ecological friendly manner. Ecological way is NOT expensive btw; cost wise it makes almost no difference. Lastly, countries should pressure Indonesia to enforce this. Economic pressure is used all the time. Indonesia is NOT sovereign, especially in this case. They're quite good in responding to the palm oil demand from other countries!
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  I meant it as a descriptive answer: why is the world looking away? This is why. Indonesia does have laws against these practices, but it seems they cannot or will not enforce them. Indonesia is also a major regional power so it seems its neighbors can't do anything about it either.
JimmyAustin 11y ago
I'm not sure you understand exactly how bad this is. It becomes incredibly hard to breathe. I was in KL in mid-2014 when they started the burns and I couldn't walk 200m without being out of breath. No one is saying that you can't pollute your own country, but you shouldn't be allowed to pollute others to the point where it is inhospitable.
- Filligree 11y ago
  So what do you suggest we do about it?
  - princeb 11y ago
    some of the other countries in the region should simply move their defensive forces over and annex the island of Sumatra. the Indonesian government has simply run out of resources and that island is completely without any semblance of organization. I have doubts that the Jakarta administration will even notice if the island is no longer under their ownership, but even if they do I do not believe that they will do much more than voice a very angry opinion.
    - ptaipale 11y ago
      You need a bit more than "defensive" forces for this.
    - theworstshill 11y ago
      The Japanese and the Dutch already tried, guess 3rd time's the charm?
    - jerf 11y ago
      So, basically, the "right people" need to colonize Indonesia?
  - XorNot 11y ago
    It is a decent point that something short of military action would be advisable, because if this goes on long enough then eventually it's going to look like a pretty attractive option.
  - jonknee 11y ago
    Slap huge tariffs on their palm oil to make burning the land unprofitable. Other more general sanctions would be possible as well.
danmaz74 11y ago
Well all our nations are sovereign too, and we can choose not to import products from places where they are produced in a way that create big external damages.
tluyben2 11y ago
We stopped doing a lot of stuff because we now understand more about the consequences. And this is not only a disaster for nature but also for humans meaning it's everyone's concern. Just embargo (or threaten; maybe it's enough) the buying of the oil (and anything else) until they want to listen to reason. Like many said already; it's not more costly to do this in an ecologically friendly way as they are killing their people, forests, wildlife and shortening the lives of people living in countries around them.
Joeboy 11y ago
It's not like foreign governments could meddle with Indonesia's internal affairs.
savanaly 11y ago
>If we did, they could point that finger right back at us and ask us what happened to our forests and peat? Uhm, we chopped it down and burned it all before Indonesia was founded. But you shouldn't do that. That's hardly a reason they should be allowed to do it. Hypocrisy should make us feel bad, but it in no way invalidates our request that they quit shitting up the environment.

bkor 11y ago

That's an amazingly simplistic answer. Burning is one way to ensure you have really cheap palm oil.. Most of the palm oil demand is foreign, it is NOT Indonesia making it purely for themselves. For one, Indonesia should have rules banning the burning practice. AFAIK, they have been offered money to combat the need for burning (as compensation) and they ignored these offers (probably reputation thing). Secondly, other countries should enforce that companies ensure that the palm oil is produced in a ecological friendly manner. Ecological way is NOT expensive btw; cost wise it makes almost no difference. Lastly, countries should pressure Indonesia to enforce this. Economic pressure is used all the time. Indonesia is NOT sovereign, especially in this case. They're quite good in responding to the palm oil demand from other countries!

wobbleblob 11y ago
I meant it as a descriptive answer: why is the world looking away? This is why. Indonesia does have laws against these practices, but it seems they cannot or will not enforce them. Indonesia is also a major regional power so it seems its neighbors can't do anything about it either.

JimmyAustin 11y ago

I'm not sure you understand exactly how bad this is. It becomes incredibly hard to breathe. I was in KL in mid-2014 when they started the burns and I couldn't walk 200m without being out of breath. No one is saying that you can't pollute your own country, but you shouldn't be allowed to pollute others to the point where it is inhospitable.

Filligree 11y ago
So what do you suggest we do about it?
- princeb 11y ago
  some of the other countries in the region should simply move their defensive forces over and annex the island of Sumatra. the Indonesian government has simply run out of resources and that island is completely without any semblance of organization. I have doubts that the Jakarta administration will even notice if the island is no longer under their ownership, but even if they do I do not believe that they will do much more than voice a very angry opinion.
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    You need a bit more than "defensive" forces for this.
  - theworstshill 11y ago
    The Japanese and the Dutch already tried, guess 3rd time's the charm?
  - jerf 11y ago
    So, basically, the "right people" need to colonize Indonesia?
- XorNot 11y ago
  It is a decent point that something short of military action would be advisable, because if this goes on long enough then eventually it's going to look like a pretty attractive option.
- jonknee 11y ago
  Slap huge tariffs on their palm oil to make burning the land unprofitable. Other more general sanctions would be possible as well.

danmaz74 11y ago

Well all our nations are sovereign too, and we can choose not to import products from places where they are produced in a way that create big external damages.

tluyben2 11y ago

We stopped doing a lot of stuff because we now understand more about the consequences. And this is not only a disaster for nature but also for humans meaning it's everyone's concern. Just embargo (or threaten; maybe it's enough) the buying of the oil (and anything else) until they want to listen to reason. Like many said already; it's not more costly to do this in an ecologically friendly way as they are killing their people, forests, wildlife and shortening the lives of people living in countries around them.

Joeboy 11y ago

It's not like foreign governments could meddle with Indonesia's internal affairs.

savanaly 11y ago

>If we did, they could point that finger right back at us and ask us what happened to our forests and peat? Uhm, we chopped it down and burned it all before Indonesia was founded. But you shouldn't do that. That's hardly a reason they should be allowed to do it. Hypocrisy should make us feel bad, but it in no way invalidates our request that they quit shitting up the environment.