4 ms·

I'm sorry my question made you so upset, but I have seen several comments by you asserting nosh is superior to launchd, and that the NextBSD project is misguide

I'm sorry my question made you so upset, but I have seen several comments by you asserting nosh is superior to launchd, and that the NextBSD project is misguided, yet I haven't really seen much specifics, on those assertions. So I thought that because you would wrote... > nosh is, by far, the single most masterfully architected and carefully researched toolkit for init, process management, supervision (also with auxiliary utilities for user mode VTs and UCSPI) out there at present, trailing only with s6. The FreeBSD community will do itself a great favor by adopting it over the NextBSD experiment. You would have specific examples of nosh being a better init system than launchd. I would also add that you didn't really address my question, you explained some deficiencies of launchd, but didn't explain how nosh address's those issues or how it avoids them. Finally If you really wan't to advocate for nosh over launchd your best off not writing sentences like... > Your question is cognitively devoid of meaning without giving a frame of reference, methodology, heuristic or other a priori anchor for me to be able to give you a reasonable comparison between two software architectures. If nosh really is an improvement on launchd great! But petty verbal attacks are no way to get the FreeBSD community to adopt nosh.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
I would also add that you didn't really address my question, you explained some deficiencies of launchd, but didn't explain how nosh address's those issues or how it avoids them. Those deficiencies are all intrinsic to launchd's architecture specifically, and not intrinsic to the problem domain. As such, simply not being launchd is sufficient to avoid them. If nosh really is an improvement on launchd great! But petty verbal attacks are no way to get the FreeBSD community to adopt nosh. There are no petty verbal attacks anywhere. That your question was noncognitivistic is I think not of dispute, but even if it is, it's still not a "petty verbal attack" that was leveled, but a methodological criticism. Instead, you're ignoring all of the flaws I listed in favor of a red herring dismissal by focusing on my criticism of your question. Not everything revolves around your feelings.
- 2trill2spill 11y ago
  > Instead, you're ignoring all of the flaws I listed in favor of a red herring dismissal by focusing on my criticism of your question. Not everything revolves around your feelings. I'm not ignoring the issue you have pointed out, rather It would be nice to hear about nosh. There's significantly more information about launchd than nosh, for example launchd has two videos, explaining the reasoning and methodology for bringing in launchd and the other apple libraries. FreeBSD next 10 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mri66Uz6-8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mri66Uz6-8Y NextBSD intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49sPYHh473U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49sPYHh473U A quick search on google and their are no videos about nosh. The nosh website doesn't contain much information about the design of nosh. Looking around the source of nosh the various html files look promising and i'm going through those. Unfortunately my c++ skills are inadequate to judge the code quality of nosh effectively. Which on a side note I think will hurt nosh chances of being adopted, because the open source os world seems biased to using C. I't just harder to find stuff out about nosh and you seemed knowledgeable on the subject, hence the original question. So is there any good documentation on nosh besides the source it's self?
  - JdeBP 11y ago
    > So is there any good documentation on nosh besides the source it's self? Yes. Taking a page from upstart (with its Cookbook), FreeBSD, and even Microsoft, nosh not only comes with reference manuals but comes with the nosh Guide. (One thing that Microsoft doco such as the MSDN Library consistently does is have both "about" and "using", i.e. reference and guide, doco.) It's first on both of the binary package download pages, separately downloadable and installable without need for installing any of the programs, and recommended by the timorous admin's how-to right at the start. The very first thing, in the introduction chapter, is a section on the design fundamentals. * http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwares/nosh/timorous-admin-installation-how-to.html http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwa... Strictly speaking, this wasn't actually page from either upstart's or FreeBSD's books, as the habit pre-dates upstart's very existence by well over a decade. nosh is not the first project to have both reference doco and user guide (and indeed announcement blurb separate from both) by any means. Here's another: * http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwares/cmd/ http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwa... * http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwares/cmd.html http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwa...

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

I would also add that you didn't really address my question, you explained some deficiencies of launchd, but didn't explain how nosh address's those issues or how it avoids them. Those deficiencies are all intrinsic to launchd's architecture specifically, and not intrinsic to the problem domain. As such, simply not being launchd is sufficient to avoid them. If nosh really is an improvement on launchd great! But petty verbal attacks are no way to get the FreeBSD community to adopt nosh. There are no petty verbal attacks anywhere. That your question was noncognitivistic is I think not of dispute, but even if it is, it's still not a "petty verbal attack" that was leveled, but a methodological criticism. Instead, you're ignoring all of the flaws I listed in favor of a red herring dismissal by focusing on my criticism of your question. Not everything revolves around your feelings.

2trill2spill 11y ago
> Instead, you're ignoring all of the flaws I listed in favor of a red herring dismissal by focusing on my criticism of your question. Not everything revolves around your feelings. I'm not ignoring the issue you have pointed out, rather It would be nice to hear about nosh. There's significantly more information about launchd than nosh, for example launchd has two videos, explaining the reasoning and methodology for bringing in launchd and the other apple libraries. FreeBSD next 10 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mri66Uz6-8Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mri66Uz6-8Y NextBSD intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49sPYHh473U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49sPYHh473U A quick search on google and their are no videos about nosh. The nosh website doesn't contain much information about the design of nosh. Looking around the source of nosh the various html files look promising and i'm going through those. Unfortunately my c++ skills are inadequate to judge the code quality of nosh effectively. Which on a side note I think will hurt nosh chances of being adopted, because the open source os world seems biased to using C. I't just harder to find stuff out about nosh and you seemed knowledgeable on the subject, hence the original question. So is there any good documentation on nosh besides the source it's self?
- JdeBP 11y ago
  > So is there any good documentation on nosh besides the source it's self? Yes. Taking a page from upstart (with its Cookbook), FreeBSD, and even Microsoft, nosh not only comes with reference manuals but comes with the nosh Guide. (One thing that Microsoft doco such as the MSDN Library consistently does is have both "about" and "using", i.e. reference and guide, doco.) It's first on both of the binary package download pages, separately downloadable and installable without need for installing any of the programs, and recommended by the timorous admin's how-to right at the start. The very first thing, in the introduction chapter, is a section on the design fundamentals. * http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwares/nosh/timorous-admin-installation-how-to.html http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwa... Strictly speaking, this wasn't actually page from either upstart's or FreeBSD's books, as the habit pre-dates upstart's very existence by well over a decade. nosh is not the first project to have both reference doco and user guide (and indeed announcement blurb separate from both) by any means. Here's another: * http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwares/cmd/ http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwa... * http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwares/cmd.html http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/Softwa...