8 ms·

Any news on what containers and codecs don't require transcoding? The new Apple TV ought to be pretty capable.

simcop2387 11y ago
Containers shouldn't affect transcoding at all, might mean re-muxing but I'd guess based on what i remember for older apple tvs that pretty much only MPEG-TS and mp4 are supported as containers, and it has to use HLS for streaming. Codec wise I wouldn't be surprised if it was only H264, H265, VP8, and MPEG2/4. I'd give 50/50 on the MPEG2 support though, might be there just because the hardware had it and to ease releases from the DVD era.
- msbarnett 11y ago
  I'd be very surprised if VP8 were supported at all -- nothing else from Apple supports it. It will almost certainly have to be transcoded for the AppleTV.
  - simcop2387 11y ago
    It's one thing I'm not sure about, given that youtube loves to use it as part of webm.
- johansch 11y ago
  It can't stream (not transcode/repackage) mkv/h264 etc? No thanks.
  - simcop2387 11y ago
    I don't know for certain. I'm speculating based off previous apple products.
  - gigq 11y ago
    Plex has a feature called Direct Stream that supports this use case: https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200250387-Streaming-Media-Direct-Play-and-Direct-Stream https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200250387-Streamin...
  - johansch 11y ago
    Addendum: It can stream mkv/h264 without transcoding quite well. I'm really enjoying Plex on my new Apple TV!
Veratyr 11y ago
You mean hardware supported codecs? According to the specs page [0] it's pretty much the same as an iPhone. Standard H.264 <= 60fps 1080p, regular MPEG-4, HE-AAC. The usual MP4 containers. Most of Apple's audio codecs. The most interesting thing is the HEVC support [1] but I'm not sure how useful that will be given the patent situation. There are also rumours [2] that the A8 can deal with 4K. If you mean software decoding, I'm not sure what you have in mind. The more interesting codecs (VP9, Thor, Daala) are too complex to decode in software on such a low power embedded chip. [0]: https://www.apple.com/tv/specs/ https://www.apple.com/tv/specs/ [1]: http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/News/Online-Video-News/Apple-Supports-H.265-But-So-Far-Only-in-FaceTime-on-an-iPhone-6-100392.aspx http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/News/Online-Video-New... [2]: http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-66-plus-a8-chip-capable-of-4k-video-playback-22356949/ http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-66-plus-a8-chip-capable-of-4...
- simcop2387 11y ago
  Good job finding the actual specs, I didn't bother to look, but it looks like I wasn't far off except in thinking that VP8 and MPEG2 MIGHT be supported. I'm surprised about the lack of H265/HEVC, even if it's not used much now it means that as things progress the ATV2 will end up being unable to support things in the future.
  - arm 11y ago
    Believe you meant the 'ATV4', or as Apple refers to it, the Apple TV (4th generation)¹. ―――――― ¹ — https://support.apple.com/kb/SP724 https://support.apple.com/kb/SP724
- phren0logy 11y ago
  I was referring to software, as I figured the Apple embedded chips have gotten fairly beefy over the past few years and might be up to the task of software decoding. Thanks for the detailed response.
  - Veratyr 11y ago
    They might be able to deal with some of the older codecs like FLV or WMV but even many laptops struggle with codecs like VP8/9, with some users going so far as to use plugins [0] to disable them. I have a feeling you'd be hard pressed even getting something like 10-bit H.264 (common for anime releases) decoding in software. Things like this have been attempted in the Raspberry Pi community but the last time I checked there was no success. [0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/h264ify/aleakchihdccplidncghkekgioiakgal https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/h264ify/aleakchihd...

Containers shouldn't affect transcoding at all, might mean re-muxing but I'd guess based on what i remember for older apple tvs that pretty much only MPEG-TS and mp4 are supported as containers, and it has to use HLS for streaming. Codec wise I wouldn't be surprised if it was only H264, H265, VP8, and MPEG2/4. I'd give 50/50 on the MPEG2 support though, might be there just because the hardware had it and to ease releases from the DVD era.

msbarnett 11y ago
I'd be very surprised if VP8 were supported at all -- nothing else from Apple supports it. It will almost certainly have to be transcoded for the AppleTV.
- simcop2387 11y ago
  It's one thing I'm not sure about, given that youtube loves to use it as part of webm.
johansch 11y ago
It can't stream (not transcode/repackage) mkv/h264 etc? No thanks.
- simcop2387 11y ago
  I don't know for certain. I'm speculating based off previous apple products.
- gigq 11y ago
  Plex has a feature called Direct Stream that supports this use case: https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200250387-Streaming-Media-Direct-Play-and-Direct-Stream https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/200250387-Streamin...
- johansch 11y ago
  Addendum: It can stream mkv/h264 without transcoding quite well. I'm really enjoying Plex on my new Apple TV!

Veratyr 11y ago

You mean hardware supported codecs? According to the specs page [0] it's pretty much the same as an iPhone. Standard H.264 <= 60fps 1080p, regular MPEG-4, HE-AAC. The usual MP4 containers. Most of Apple's audio codecs. The most interesting thing is the HEVC support [1] but I'm not sure how useful that will be given the patent situation. There are also rumours [2] that the A8 can deal with 4K. If you mean software decoding, I'm not sure what you have in mind. The more interesting codecs (VP9, Thor, Daala) are too complex to decode in software on such a low power embedded chip. [0]: https://www.apple.com/tv/specs/ https://www.apple.com/tv/specs/ [1]: http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/News/Online-Video-News/Apple-Supports-H.265-But-So-Far-Only-in-FaceTime-on-an-iPhone-6-100392.aspx http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/News/Online-Video-New... [2]: http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-66-plus-a8-chip-capable-of-4k-video-playback-22356949/ http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-66-plus-a8-chip-capable-of-4...

simcop2387 11y ago
Good job finding the actual specs, I didn't bother to look, but it looks like I wasn't far off except in thinking that VP8 and MPEG2 MIGHT be supported. I'm surprised about the lack of H265/HEVC, even if it's not used much now it means that as things progress the ATV2 will end up being unable to support things in the future.
- arm 11y ago
  Believe you meant the 'ATV4', or as Apple refers to it, the Apple TV (4th generation)¹. ―――――― ¹ — https://support.apple.com/kb/SP724 https://support.apple.com/kb/SP724
phren0logy 11y ago
I was referring to software, as I figured the Apple embedded chips have gotten fairly beefy over the past few years and might be up to the task of software decoding. Thanks for the detailed response.
- Veratyr 11y ago
  They might be able to deal with some of the older codecs like FLV or WMV but even many laptops struggle with codecs like VP8/9, with some users going so far as to use plugins [0] to disable them. I have a feeling you'd be hard pressed even getting something like 10-bit H.264 (common for anime releases) decoding in software. Things like this have been attempted in the Raspberry Pi community but the last time I checked there was no success. [0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/h264ify/aleakchihdccplidncghkekgioiakgal https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/h264ify/aleakchihd...