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I am only somewhat familiar with Star Trek (mostly by way of TNG), but I think it would be cool to see a conflict with a re-imagined version of the Ferengi. I

by gajomi 11y ago

I am only somewhat familiar with Star Trek (mostly by way of TNG), but I think it would be cool to see a conflict with a re-imagined version of the Ferengi. I never heard any exposition on the details, but the Federation is supposedly an essentially egalitarian post-scarcity economy with a religion of space exploration. In contrast, the Ferengi always seemed much closer to our own society: they are cold blooded capitalists with misogynistic tendencies, but still manage to maintain a vibrant civilization in space, in which they uphold contracts and maintain infrastructure. And so it would seem that at the hypothetical interface between the Ferengi and the Federation there would be not just a huge culture clash, but moral and political scandals of the highest order, mostly concentrated around (1) the exploitation of Federation members by Ferengi (2) incidental macroeconomic chaos within Ferengi society due to the Federation sending free aid, setting artificial price restrictions within their markets, etc. If one redesigned the Ferengi with a non-goofy appearance and a cool demeanor they could be made relatable, in the same way that one can relate to the various capitalist villain archetypes: wall street narcissists, oil tycoons, drug kingpins and so on.

dnautics 11y ago
I think it's star trek canon that the Ferengi never had any internal problems with slavery (of other Ferengi) or genocide. I think it would be much more interesting to explore the creepier side of this supposedly egalitarian post-scarcity economy... I mean think of how wierd it is that a military organization is in charge of scientific exploration, that all the individuals on the starship are tracked at all times, etc...
- serge2k 11y ago
  > that all the individuals on the starship are tracked at all times don't we already do that on our spaceships?
- boxy310 11y ago
  The timeline changes from the new Star Trek movies imply that the Vulcans (pacifist science beatniks driven by cold logic) hold dramatically less sway over Starfleet Command, which is why Admiral Marcus almost succeeded in a coup. Kirk always had a mixed-bag relationship with Starfleet and had to go to bat up against them in Spock's favor. Picard also foiled a number of infiltrations on Earth during the early seasons of TNG. Dr. Bashir and Chief O'Brien repeatedly tussled with agents of Section 31 on DS9. Tom Riker ended up fleeing Starfleet so he could fight with the Maquis, who were betrayed by the Federation and tortured by Cardassian overlords. Sisko himself murdered an ambassador and implicated the Dominion in a diplomatic plot to get Romulans to join the war. There's a hell of a lot of well-intentioned extremists, even in Star Trek's utopia. Now what happens when you take away the biggest voice of reason? Sends shivers down my spine to think about what kind of darkness in the hearts of men the crew of the Possibly-Enterprise will wrestle with.
- krapp 11y ago
  >that all the individuals on the starship are tracked at all times The tracking as such seems to be pretty passive most of the time - the computer has to be asked before telling the bridge crew where someone is (for dramatic effect), even if they've been confined to quarters, or sucked into a parallel universe. It could be that the computer is constantly monitoring the crew, or that while it has the capability to track anyone on the ship at any time (which is plausible) this is only used when necessary. Edit: now that I think about it, the latter would make sense on a ship which would be expected to occasionally house diplomats or dignitaries, who might expect some degree of privacy. Also, we can infer from episodes like The Ultimate Computer that there is kind of a mistrust of strong AI among the Federation, which would justify the computer defaulting to privacy unless explicitly being commanded to do otherwise.
  - belovedeagle 11y ago
    Indeed, the computer never bothered to mention when people were removed from the ship unexpectedly; it was always up to the bridge crew to ask and learn, "oh by the way, yeah, main character X was beamed off the ship by enemies hours ago". Annoying when it happened, but suggests a pretty significant concession to privacy.
  - johnchristopher 11y ago
    Somehow I always thought the computer tracked people's badge, not the bodies.
    - krapp 11y ago
      I do think I remember that happening a lot. But the computer also tracked down people without badges sometimes, whenever the plot required. Maybe having a combadge meant the computer was only allowed to track the badge and not that person under normal circumstances.
- gajomi 11y ago
  Yeah a look into the Federation society could be interesting. One thing that always bothered me was why people weren't basically just spending their time hanging around the food replicators and fornicating in the hologram machine. I can buy that the crew of a starship would be chosen for a strange combination of discipline and risk-aversion (not to mention Starfleet adding something to the water), but it seemed to me that there would have to be all kinds of exotic hedonism, resource intensive "art" projects and crazy philosophies on the surface of the planets.
  - ethbro 11y ago
    If you haven't read it, this might be relevant to your interests: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series I thought it had some interesting "Okay, so no more scarcity, now what?" plots.
  - krapp 11y ago
    The real answer is because it's a family-friendly franchise, with a utopian vision of humanity that doesn't offend the sponsors. I think they do get up to some weird, freaky stuff in the holodeck, but like the toilets, it's one of those facets of Star Trek life that can only exist offscreen. Why do the holodeck doors[0] look like they have massive locking mechanisms? The holodeck is apparently one of the most advanced pieces of technology in Starfleet, a system of such vast complexity it can be create sentient life on command, and simulate the experience of entire worlds down to the atomic level. Why would such a system have what appears to be a peripheral role on the ship, serving as little more than entertainment, and why is it apparently locked up tighter than even the bridge? It's implied that humans for the most part have evolved beyond beyond base desires like greed and hatred, but this is rarely backed up by any of the series. But what if, among Federation society, displays of "unevolved" human behavior are generally forbidden or frowned upon outside of a controlled environment like the holodeck? Whatever happens in the holodeck, stays in the holodeck (except when it doesn't) thoroughly locked away out of sight and out of mind. It acts as a release mechanism for humanity's atavistic pleasure seeking side, but humans can't admit that it plays as central a role in their society as it must. We catch glimpses of this now and then from Barclay, or the one time Geordi's secret hologram girlfriend was discovered by the woman it was based on, but for the most part the humans maintain the pretense that that part of their psyche no longer exists. Part of the reason for this subterfuge (that I'm concocting and that isn't canon but should be) might be that the Federation was started and run by humans, a species which is, as interstellar societies go, still practically children. Anyone spending time being tutored in civilization by the condescending (per Enterprise) Vulcans, the first alien species Humans encounter and the one that forms, if even subconsciously, their template for what "aliens" actually are, might have developed a deep species-level cultural cringe and a desire to appear more "evolved" to other species. [0]http://api.ning.com/files/2bmZ7rAoYlF22iZQvOguNf5lHJktmIBVkrlwgxOdU5AsRc4fLTtyZGhXWuc1WVz3hYRRRcL9sHlBzodXilLIGMFqejzkp9MO/holodeck_doorgalaxy.jpg http://api.ning.com/files/2bmZ7rAoYlF22iZQvOguNf5lHJktmIBVkr...
- argumont 11y ago
  I'm picturing a Federation that stumbles ever deeper into a dystopian nightmare while still maintaining a "we're the good guys and the end justifies the means"-vibe. And finally Kirk and bearded Spock meet their counterparts from the good mirror universe.
- ElComradio 11y ago
  You are correct; Quark goes on a few rants about this in DS9. Also since the Ferengi are so terrible with fighting, considering it a waste of resources (excluding the marauders in TNG but those are later implied to be a minority) that we can safely assume they never had any world wars of their own.
BHSPitMonkey 11y ago
The Ferengi and their culture are a focus of Deep Space 9; You should give it a watch.

by gajomi 11y ago

dnautics 11y ago

I think it's star trek canon that the Ferengi never had any internal problems with slavery (of other Ferengi) or genocide. I think it would be much more interesting to explore the creepier side of this supposedly egalitarian post-scarcity economy... I mean think of how wierd it is that a military organization is in charge of scientific exploration, that all the individuals on the starship are tracked at all times, etc...

serge2k 11y ago
> that all the individuals on the starship are tracked at all times don't we already do that on our spaceships?
boxy310 11y ago
The timeline changes from the new Star Trek movies imply that the Vulcans (pacifist science beatniks driven by cold logic) hold dramatically less sway over Starfleet Command, which is why Admiral Marcus almost succeeded in a coup. Kirk always had a mixed-bag relationship with Starfleet and had to go to bat up against them in Spock's favor. Picard also foiled a number of infiltrations on Earth during the early seasons of TNG. Dr. Bashir and Chief O'Brien repeatedly tussled with agents of Section 31 on DS9. Tom Riker ended up fleeing Starfleet so he could fight with the Maquis, who were betrayed by the Federation and tortured by Cardassian overlords. Sisko himself murdered an ambassador and implicated the Dominion in a diplomatic plot to get Romulans to join the war. There's a hell of a lot of well-intentioned extremists, even in Star Trek's utopia. Now what happens when you take away the biggest voice of reason? Sends shivers down my spine to think about what kind of darkness in the hearts of men the crew of the Possibly-Enterprise will wrestle with.
krapp 11y ago
>that all the individuals on the starship are tracked at all times The tracking as such seems to be pretty passive most of the time - the computer has to be asked before telling the bridge crew where someone is (for dramatic effect), even if they've been confined to quarters, or sucked into a parallel universe. It could be that the computer is constantly monitoring the crew, or that while it has the capability to track anyone on the ship at any time (which is plausible) this is only used when necessary. Edit: now that I think about it, the latter would make sense on a ship which would be expected to occasionally house diplomats or dignitaries, who might expect some degree of privacy. Also, we can infer from episodes like The Ultimate Computer that there is kind of a mistrust of strong AI among the Federation, which would justify the computer defaulting to privacy unless explicitly being commanded to do otherwise.
- belovedeagle 11y ago
  Indeed, the computer never bothered to mention when people were removed from the ship unexpectedly; it was always up to the bridge crew to ask and learn, "oh by the way, yeah, main character X was beamed off the ship by enemies hours ago". Annoying when it happened, but suggests a pretty significant concession to privacy.
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  Somehow I always thought the computer tracked people's badge, not the bodies.
  - krapp 11y ago
    I do think I remember that happening a lot. But the computer also tracked down people without badges sometimes, whenever the plot required. Maybe having a combadge meant the computer was only allowed to track the badge and not that person under normal circumstances.
gajomi 11y ago
Yeah a look into the Federation society could be interesting. One thing that always bothered me was why people weren't basically just spending their time hanging around the food replicators and fornicating in the hologram machine. I can buy that the crew of a starship would be chosen for a strange combination of discipline and risk-aversion (not to mention Starfleet adding something to the water), but it seemed to me that there would have to be all kinds of exotic hedonism, resource intensive "art" projects and crazy philosophies on the surface of the planets.
- ethbro 11y ago
  If you haven't read it, this might be relevant to your interests: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series I thought it had some interesting "Okay, so no more scarcity, now what?" plots.
- krapp 11y ago
  The real answer is because it's a family-friendly franchise, with a utopian vision of humanity that doesn't offend the sponsors. I think they do get up to some weird, freaky stuff in the holodeck, but like the toilets, it's one of those facets of Star Trek life that can only exist offscreen. Why do the holodeck doors[0] look like they have massive locking mechanisms? The holodeck is apparently one of the most advanced pieces of technology in Starfleet, a system of such vast complexity it can be create sentient life on command, and simulate the experience of entire worlds down to the atomic level. Why would such a system have what appears to be a peripheral role on the ship, serving as little more than entertainment, and why is it apparently locked up tighter than even the bridge? It's implied that humans for the most part have evolved beyond beyond base desires like greed and hatred, but this is rarely backed up by any of the series. But what if, among Federation society, displays of "unevolved" human behavior are generally forbidden or frowned upon outside of a controlled environment like the holodeck? Whatever happens in the holodeck, stays in the holodeck (except when it doesn't) thoroughly locked away out of sight and out of mind. It acts as a release mechanism for humanity's atavistic pleasure seeking side, but humans can't admit that it plays as central a role in their society as it must. We catch glimpses of this now and then from Barclay, or the one time Geordi's secret hologram girlfriend was discovered by the woman it was based on, but for the most part the humans maintain the pretense that that part of their psyche no longer exists. Part of the reason for this subterfuge (that I'm concocting and that isn't canon but should be) might be that the Federation was started and run by humans, a species which is, as interstellar societies go, still practically children. Anyone spending time being tutored in civilization by the condescending (per Enterprise) Vulcans, the first alien species Humans encounter and the one that forms, if even subconsciously, their template for what "aliens" actually are, might have developed a deep species-level cultural cringe and a desire to appear more "evolved" to other species. [0]http://api.ning.com/files/2bmZ7rAoYlF22iZQvOguNf5lHJktmIBVkrlwgxOdU5AsRc4fLTtyZGhXWuc1WVz3hYRRRcL9sHlBzodXilLIGMFqejzkp9MO/holodeck_doorgalaxy.jpg http://api.ning.com/files/2bmZ7rAoYlF22iZQvOguNf5lHJktmIBVkr...
argumont 11y ago
I'm picturing a Federation that stumbles ever deeper into a dystopian nightmare while still maintaining a "we're the good guys and the end justifies the means"-vibe. And finally Kirk and bearded Spock meet their counterparts from the good mirror universe.
ElComradio 11y ago
You are correct; Quark goes on a few rants about this in DS9. Also since the Ferengi are so terrible with fighting, considering it a waste of resources (excluding the marauders in TNG but those are later implied to be a minority) that we can safely assume they never had any world wars of their own.

BHSPitMonkey 11y ago

The Ferengi and their culture are a focus of Deep Space 9; You should give it a watch.