4 ms·

Quite telling of what, though? You're still just hinting. What are you trying to say?

by fineman 11y ago

kafkaesq 11y ago
I wasn't going to "shame" or denounce the guy, if that's what you were fishing for. I'll leave moralistic judgements up to those directly impacted by his activities -- in this case, his landlord and his neighbors (and quite possible, depending on how he files his returns, the NYC taxpayer, as well). But on broader fronts, the poster's confession does add to the body of anecdotal evidence we have (being as hard data would be extremely difficult to come by) that a significant chunk of Aribnb's business model is based on outright fraud, in various forms. "Outsourced" fraud, one might, for which Airbnb can't be held directly or legally culpable -- but fraud, pure and simple, nonetheless. And even if only 5-10% (a very conservative guess) of Airbnb's host are engaged in a comparable sort of scheme -- we're still talking about a scale affecting quite literally millions of people, globally. Which in turn the leadership of Airbnb must no doubt be cognizant of one some level; and -- until they're forced to do otherwise (because you we nearly always have to force these companies to behave properly, it turns out) -- more than happy to turn a blind eye at. "Socializing costs, privatizing gains", in other words.
- fineman 11y ago
  Sorry, forgot to check this far back. Yes, though. I am sort of saying that by asking one guy out of a crowd very obvious questions you were attempting to publicly shame him or call him on something. Were you actually asking that question to gain a data point you needed, or was it mainly commentary? Anyways, like with Uber. I know the taxi's companies have a government granted monopoly. I don't ride with Uber because I'm ignorant of that, I ride with them almost because of that fact (and that they're just so much better of an experience). But as a rider I have nothing to lose. With AirBnB when people are waving around fairly ludicrous threats of fines and liens on your property, who'd admit to anything when they know the other side is just looking for a scapegoat?
  - kafkaesq 11y ago
    My intent wasn't to "shame" him -- but if he understood the consequences of his actions (and to collect the data point). With AirBnB when people are waving around fairly ludicrous threats of fines and liens on your property, who'd admit to anything when they know the other side is just looking for a scapegoat? I'm not sure what threats you're referring to. The collateral damage (to property owners, neighbors ... and as we have seen from the other article posted today[1], to customers who fall on the wrong side of Airbnb's liability coverage) are very real -- so I don't see the concerns people are raising about it as "scapegoating." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10531229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10531229
    - fineman 11y ago
      The damage may be real, but "the problem of damage" is not. If my (theoretical) AirBnB guests damaged something I'm on the hook as if I damaged it myself. I don't get a free pass, so there's no externality. My strata organization can fine me for noise, wether caused by a party or an unruly tenant. Even the way you present it is as if users of AirBnB are ripping everyone off ("consequences of his actions..."). It's just taken for granted. And anyways, scapegoating is about the picking of a specific person to suffer for the crimes of the many. Singling out one person for something many people are doing is pretty unkind even if the thing is bad, which is debatable in this case.
      - kafkaesq 11y ago
        Even the way you present it is as if users of AirBnB are ripping everyone off ("consequences of his actions..."). No, my observation applies strictly to those who rent their apartments in violation of their leases and/or local ordinances. ..even if the thing is bad, which is debatable in this case. You're welcome to debate whether "the thing" (subleasing his apartment in violation of his lease -- for a huge profit) is bad or not, but to me it seems pretty clear.
        fineman 11y ago

Quite telling of what, though? You're still just hinting. What are you trying to say?

by fineman 11y ago

Quite telling of what, though? You're still just hinting. What are you trying to say?

I wasn't going to "shame" or denounce the guy, if that's what you were fishing for. I'll leave moralistic judgements up to those directly impacted by his activities -- in this case, his landlord and his neighbors (and quite possible, depending on how he files his returns, the NYC taxpayer, as well). But on broader fronts, the poster's confession does add to the body of anecdotal evidence we have (being as hard data would be extremely difficult to come by) that a significant chunk of Aribnb's business model is based on outright fraud, in various forms. "Outsourced" fraud, one might, for which Airbnb can't be held directly or legally culpable -- but fraud, pure and simple, nonetheless. And even if only 5-10% (a very conservative guess) of Airbnb's host are engaged in a comparable sort of scheme -- we're still talking about a scale affecting quite literally millions of people, globally. Which in turn the leadership of Airbnb must no doubt be cognizant of one some level; and -- until they're forced to do otherwise (because you we nearly always have to force these companies to behave properly, it turns out) -- more than happy to turn a blind eye at. "Socializing costs, privatizing gains", in other words.

fineman 11y ago
Sorry, forgot to check this far back. Yes, though. I am sort of saying that by asking one guy out of a crowd very obvious questions you were attempting to publicly shame him or call him on something. Were you actually asking that question to gain a data point you needed, or was it mainly commentary? Anyways, like with Uber. I know the taxi's companies have a government granted monopoly. I don't ride with Uber because I'm ignorant of that, I ride with them almost because of that fact (and that they're just so much better of an experience). But as a rider I have nothing to lose. With AirBnB when people are waving around fairly ludicrous threats of fines and liens on your property, who'd admit to anything when they know the other side is just looking for a scapegoat?
- kafkaesq 11y ago
  My intent wasn't to "shame" him -- but if he understood the consequences of his actions (and to collect the data point). With AirBnB when people are waving around fairly ludicrous threats of fines and liens on your property, who'd admit to anything when they know the other side is just looking for a scapegoat? I'm not sure what threats you're referring to. The collateral damage (to property owners, neighbors ... and as we have seen from the other article posted today[1], to customers who fall on the wrong side of Airbnb's liability coverage) are very real -- so I don't see the concerns people are raising about it as "scapegoating." [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10531229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10531229
  - fineman 11y ago
    The damage may be real, but "the problem of damage" is not. If my (theoretical) AirBnB guests damaged something I'm on the hook as if I damaged it myself. I don't get a free pass, so there's no externality. My strata organization can fine me for noise, wether caused by a party or an unruly tenant. Even the way you present it is as if users of AirBnB are ripping everyone off ("consequences of his actions..."). It's just taken for granted. And anyways, scapegoating is about the picking of a specific person to suffer for the crimes of the many. Singling out one person for something many people are doing is pretty unkind even if the thing is bad, which is debatable in this case.
    - kafkaesq 11y ago
      Even the way you present it is as if users of AirBnB are ripping everyone off ("consequences of his actions..."). No, my observation applies strictly to those who rent their apartments in violation of their leases and/or local ordinances. ..even if the thing is bad, which is debatable in this case. You're welcome to debate whether "the thing" (subleasing his apartment in violation of his lease -- for a huge profit) is bad or not, but to me it seems pretty clear.
      - fineman 11y ago