3 ms·

Politicians rarely lie outright; it's too easy to catch. They usually use equivocating language, or phrase statements that make you believe that they're commit

Politicians rarely lie outright; it's too easy to catch. They usually use equivocating language, or phrase statements that make you believe that they're committing to one thing when in reality they are committing to a much narrower band of truth. Now, if you want to talk about what NSA and CIA chiefs say to the U.S. Congress under oath, there are tons of lies there.

evgen 11y ago
Once again, s/politician/human/ and your statement is more honest. So, why do you phrase statements to make people believe that politicians are some special class of humans that think differently or are somehow immune from other standards of human behavior? By committing to a much narrower band of truth regarding the human propensity to spin arguments in our favor, act in our own interests, and deceive ourselves and others you seem to suggest that you are, by your own standard, deceiving us. Have you run for political office before? Perhaps that is your source of authority for your claims.
- tripzilch 11y ago
  If by "special class" you mean "because it is part of being successful at their career", I don't see much wrong with the statement. Consider a career ("special class") that we (hopefully) agree on where being dishonest is required to succeed. An illusionist, or a spy / secret agent. Do they think differently about truth than most people? Well yes, of course they do. I can think of at least two reasons: self-selection and habit+experience. All three examples do so for different specific reasons, and in different ways. For the illusionist and the spy, I guess that's what we expect of people doing those jobs. For politicians, not so much.
tripzilch 11y ago
> Politicians rarely lie outright; it's too easy to catch. They usually use equivocating language, or phrase statements that make you believe that they're committing to one thing when in reality they are committing to a much narrower band of truth. Even then, if you look closely, there's still quite often a clear and outright lie, just cushioned in "equivocating language" (nice term, btw). It's just that all the cushioning tends to make pointing out the lie within seem like a petty thing to do. And in the case of politician-to-politicians they tend not to do that to each other because they recognize the game being played and rather not risk getting theirs in turn. If it does happen, it gets ugly fast, and both parties are worse off. BTW I don't disagree that there's also a large amount of "equivocating language" going on, without any outright lies in the middle of it. Maybe that's even more common. Doesn't mean they don't lie, quite a lot more than people whose career doesn't depend on it. Also (but this is just opinion) if "equivocating language" is used to deliberately give people / the public a wrong idea, that's not far from lying either. Even if it's "technically" true. And then there's still quite a large number of politicians, on all sides of the spectrum, left/right, popular or not, powerful or not, that I have seen knowingly speaking some pretty damn big lies, and not seeing any consequences for it.

evgen 11y ago

Once again, s/politician/human/ and your statement is more honest. So, why do you phrase statements to make people believe that politicians are some special class of humans that think differently or are somehow immune from other standards of human behavior? By committing to a much narrower band of truth regarding the human propensity to spin arguments in our favor, act in our own interests, and deceive ourselves and others you seem to suggest that you are, by your own standard, deceiving us. Have you run for political office before? Perhaps that is your source of authority for your claims.

tripzilch 11y ago
If by "special class" you mean "because it is part of being successful at their career", I don't see much wrong with the statement. Consider a career ("special class") that we (hopefully) agree on where being dishonest is required to succeed. An illusionist, or a spy / secret agent. Do they think differently about truth than most people? Well yes, of course they do. I can think of at least two reasons: self-selection and habit+experience. All three examples do so for different specific reasons, and in different ways. For the illusionist and the spy, I guess that's what we expect of people doing those jobs. For politicians, not so much.

tripzilch 11y ago

> Politicians rarely lie outright; it's too easy to catch. They usually use equivocating language, or phrase statements that make you believe that they're committing to one thing when in reality they are committing to a much narrower band of truth. Even then, if you look closely, there's still quite often a clear and outright lie, just cushioned in "equivocating language" (nice term, btw). It's just that all the cushioning tends to make pointing out the lie within seem like a petty thing to do. And in the case of politician-to-politicians they tend not to do that to each other because they recognize the game being played and rather not risk getting theirs in turn. If it does happen, it gets ugly fast, and both parties are worse off. BTW I don't disagree that there's also a large amount of "equivocating language" going on, without any outright lies in the middle of it. Maybe that's even more common. Doesn't mean they don't lie, quite a lot more than people whose career doesn't depend on it. Also (but this is just opinion) if "equivocating language" is used to deliberately give people / the public a wrong idea, that's not far from lying either. Even if it's "technically" true. And then there's still quite a large number of politicians, on all sides of the spectrum, left/right, popular or not, powerful or not, that I have seen knowingly speaking some pretty damn big lies, and not seeing any consequences for it.