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> all non-board employees have full immunity, even if they worked on the defeat device I'm not trying to pick a fight, but how is that in any way honorable?
by archon 11y ago
> all non-board employees have full immunity, even if they worked on the defeat device
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but how is that in any way honorable?
- kuschku 11y agoBecause this defeat device is nothing you should blame on a single engineer, it is clearly a systematic issue, and normal engineers should not be held accountable for actions that the CEO and board forced them to do.
- vidarh 11y agoOn the other hand it teaches those on the ground that obeying illegal orders is perfectly fine, because, hey, you won't get punished.
- kuschku 11y agoIt is also the only way you get people ever providing evidence against their boss, as otherwise they'd risk incriminating themselves.
- vidarh 11y agoYou can support that goal by offering immunity to whistleblowers.
- kuschku 11y agoWell, offering immunity to everyone who just followed orders is an important part of doing so. And it makes in this case everything a lot easier.
- vidarh 11y agoOffering immunity to everyone who just followed orders is far more drastic than offering immunity specifically only to those who actually takes the step of whistleblowing before the issue becomes known. The former creates no incentive to be a whistleblower - it just takes away one of the risks of doing so. The latter creates a strong incentive to be the first to report something.
- Retra 11y agoDisobeying those orders would just get you quietly fired.
- riffraff 11y agoand yet the "I was only following orders" line of defense should not be very popular anymore, especially in a german context.
- sp332 11y agoIt's not a defense. It encourages lower-level employees to come forward with incriminating information about higher-ups, even if if would also incriminate themselves. It's the best way to get them to roll over on their bosses.
- riffraff 11y agoThe same logic applies to management, wouldn't it? So a middle manager should not be punished, if he incriminates a higher level manager. Until what level is it ok to get a free pass incriminating your boss? People should be encouraged to come forward _before_ they do something illegal. If you reward lower level employees for doing it after the fact, the rational thing for them to do is to continue acting illegally, as if the thing blows up they will be bailed out, and if they don't they might still suffer the consequences of it (i.e. get in bad relations with their boss). I am not saying there is the same level of responsibility, but there should be _some_.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- radiorental 11y agoexactly this. Beacause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
- stefantalpalaru 11y agoBefehl ist Befehl ;-)
- mtgx 11y agoDidn't they blame two engineers for it? http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/volkswagen-emissions-congress-update-2-p-idUSL1N1281B720151008 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/volkswagen-emissio...
- kuschku 11y agoThat’s what the CEO of the US branch said. Those "engineers" were the leading engineer of R&D and the leading engineer of Engine Design. Both board members.