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I'm not defending the China gov for these actions (and many not listed above). When criticizing these actions, it helps to understand the tremendous strains wi

I'm not defending the China gov for these actions (and many not listed above). When criticizing these actions, it helps to understand the tremendous strains within China. China has changed more in the last 10 years than possibly any other country in the history of the world. These changes are accompanied by massive externalities. There are some serious powder kegs of anger and resentment, Xinjiang being a prime example. I'm not taking you to task for your criticism, but if you were a top government leader in China today, how would you handle these issues? Keep in mind that if your answer is to just make things free and open, there will most likely be a price to pay. You may say the short-term price of social disruption is worth the potential long-term benefits. However, there is no guarantee China would survive such extensive social disorder. Controlling internet traffic is both a citizen control issue and an economic protection plan. I don't know what is in the reams of WTO deals China has made but its possible they never agreed to play free and open with companies outside China for access to their Internet user base. You may not agree with this protectionist approach, but it fits squarely within China's "middle-kingdom" mentality. Again, don't take my words as a defense of any of China's actions. But seriously, what would you do if you were in charge? I certainly wouldn't take the job.

riobard 17y ago
Controlling will buy you some time before you can really fix problems. However I failed to see much possibility the current government will ever be able to fix those "stability" issues. The pressure and tension just accumulate until one day it breaks. Then you see either 1989 once again, or you see revolution. I'm expecting it to happen within the next two decades.
- lhuang 17y ago
  Who do you think will lead this revolution? Students at the elite schools in China care about getting jobs with foreign multinationals, not democratic reform...
Retric 17y ago
The size of China magnifies the significance of their changes, but there has been little real change over the last 10 years. Their economic growth pails in comparison to what South Korea or Japan went though over a similar time period. The government actively limits economic growth and has been using the limited economic growth to help quell political unease. China is a highly corrupt and protectionist society and the powerful have been using their influence to meddle in business for thousands of years. While there size may elevate them to supper power status in time, I suspect they are going to have limited impact over the next hundred years without significant political and economic reform.
- lhuang 17y ago
  huh? No real change over the last 10 years? As a rule I try to shy away inflammatory criticism, but this was a very poorly researched post. There has been TREMENDOUS change over the past 10 years! You have to remember that until Deng's reforms in the late 80s, China was a completely closed society that was just beginning to heal from decades of strife and instability (almost 100 years!), including the cultural revolution which literally turned society upside down and placed a freeze on societal progress. Since the early 90s China has made leaps and bounds in regards to reform and progress. YES they are still MANY problems, but the changes have been very substantial. China will surpass Japan this year as the 2nd largest economy in the world. Outside of the US and Russia, it holds the third largest stockpile of nuclear arms. The accolades are many... That said, its unfair to really compare China with South Korea/Japan, who've not only had a huge lead time, but also don't have 1.3 billion people to feed, provide jobs for, and yes control. All of this growth and sudden change has caused problems, corruption and protectionist economic policies (not to mention the increasingly dangerous heights of nationalism the CCP is stimulating among the populace, especially the youth). To say however that Chinese society is corrupt and have been "meddling in business for thousands of years" is absurd and frankly a bit fox-news in rhetoric. One of the things I love most about HN is that the community here is in general "smarter" than more general-interest social news communities. That said, I wish people would take a more balanced view on China. Yes there are problems and the CCP is no benevolent big brother but as the poster above me has pointed out the issues are not black and white. There are many many many nuances in uplifting a nation of 1.3 billion people into modernity. I'm not convinced that an open, free-market system is the best solution. Perhaps down the road, but not now.
est 17y ago
> the tremendous strains within China Who created these strains and who should be responsible for this?
- lhuang 17y ago
  1.3 billion people. All strains in China derive from that parent strain. Not sure you can really pin that blame on the CCP although certainly Mao's lets-all-have-babies ideas would account for some of it.

riobard 17y ago

Controlling will buy you some time before you can really fix problems. However I failed to see much possibility the current government will ever be able to fix those "stability" issues. The pressure and tension just accumulate until one day it breaks. Then you see either 1989 once again, or you see revolution. I'm expecting it to happen within the next two decades.

lhuang 17y ago
Who do you think will lead this revolution? Students at the elite schools in China care about getting jobs with foreign multinationals, not democratic reform...

Retric 17y ago

The size of China magnifies the significance of their changes, but there has been little real change over the last 10 years. Their economic growth pails in comparison to what South Korea or Japan went though over a similar time period. The government actively limits economic growth and has been using the limited economic growth to help quell political unease. China is a highly corrupt and protectionist society and the powerful have been using their influence to meddle in business for thousands of years. While there size may elevate them to supper power status in time, I suspect they are going to have limited impact over the next hundred years without significant political and economic reform.

lhuang 17y ago
huh? No real change over the last 10 years? As a rule I try to shy away inflammatory criticism, but this was a very poorly researched post. There has been TREMENDOUS change over the past 10 years! You have to remember that until Deng's reforms in the late 80s, China was a completely closed society that was just beginning to heal from decades of strife and instability (almost 100 years!), including the cultural revolution which literally turned society upside down and placed a freeze on societal progress. Since the early 90s China has made leaps and bounds in regards to reform and progress. YES they are still MANY problems, but the changes have been very substantial. China will surpass Japan this year as the 2nd largest economy in the world. Outside of the US and Russia, it holds the third largest stockpile of nuclear arms. The accolades are many... That said, its unfair to really compare China with South Korea/Japan, who've not only had a huge lead time, but also don't have 1.3 billion people to feed, provide jobs for, and yes control. All of this growth and sudden change has caused problems, corruption and protectionist economic policies (not to mention the increasingly dangerous heights of nationalism the CCP is stimulating among the populace, especially the youth). To say however that Chinese society is corrupt and have been "meddling in business for thousands of years" is absurd and frankly a bit fox-news in rhetoric. One of the things I love most about HN is that the community here is in general "smarter" than more general-interest social news communities. That said, I wish people would take a more balanced view on China. Yes there are problems and the CCP is no benevolent big brother but as the poster above me has pointed out the issues are not black and white. There are many many many nuances in uplifting a nation of 1.3 billion people into modernity. I'm not convinced that an open, free-market system is the best solution. Perhaps down the road, but not now.

est 17y ago

> the tremendous strains within China Who created these strains and who should be responsible for this?

lhuang 17y ago
1.3 billion people. All strains in China derive from that parent strain. Not sure you can really pin that blame on the CCP although certainly Mao's lets-all-have-babies ideas would account for some of it.