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Facebook is able to identify music and TV when writing status update
- J_Darnley 11y agoAnyone who has a facebook account deserves this kind of spying.
- kardos 11y agoIs that also true of anybody who is in the same room as those with facebook accounts?
- Silhouette 11y agoIndeed. There is a reason I chose not to have a Facebook account, and the continued attempts by organisations like Facebook to make my own friends and family spy on me on their behalf are infuriating and, apparently, becoming increasingly intrusive.
- J_Darnley 11y agoYes. If you don't block facebook on your network then you get what you deserve. If you have friends or acquaintances who openly use facebook next to you then you get what you deserve.
- kardos 11y ago> If you don't block facebook on your network then you get what you deserve. Also should I run a cell phone jammer? > If you have friends or acquaintances who openly use facebook next to you then you get what you deserve. I think I just got trolled here.
- chippy 11y agoThis is an opt-in feature, and is for the Android app.
- MrBra 11y agoSo it will add up to your GPS data..
- kehrlann 11y agoIs it just me or is it _beyond_ creepy ? Location, sound ... soon they will be collecting biometric data as well, "just to get room temperature, promise".
- Kiro 11y agoAs long as it's opt-in I don't find it that creepy to be honest.
- kehrlann 11y agoMh true. But will it remain opt-in ?
- rmc 11y agoIf it's a big wall of legalise that regular users have to click past to get at Facebook, then that's hardly "opt-in".
- DangerousPie 11y agoIt's a button you have to press: https://www.facebook.com/help/android-app/1499418503612943 https://www.facebook.com/help/android-app/1499418503612943
- bhouston 11y agoFacebook has a history of starting with opt-in and then making it opt-out and then over time making it harder to opt-out. It is a well established pattern.
- danso 11y agoI looked through a few of the related questions. Is there any mention of whether or not the snippets are stored beyond the time of analysis?
- rmc 11y agoIf you're not in the USA or Canada, then your contract is with Facebook Ireland, which falls under EU Data Protection law. One thing this means is that Facebook is required to give you a copy of all personal data it has on you, if you ask for it. If/When this feature is available outside the USA, then one could use it and then make a data protection request to find out if they keep it.
- sarreph 11y ago"Are you recording my conversations, Facebook?" "Of course not, silly! We don't listen to your conversations, we just identify the things you're listening to, of course!" 0_O
- donalhunt 11y agoThat was my reaction too. If there are conversations going on in the background, then YES! Yes... they will be recorded as a result of this. :/
- anjc 11y agoIt's less ambiguous than this even. "Do you record my conversations?" "No, but we do listen to them sometimes"
- jo909 11y agoI'm not saying I'm comfortable with this either way, but I do see a difference between recording a conversation with the intent to keep that recording and extract the spoken content, and processing the audio "on the fly" for certain parameters to identify a limited set of things. Of course the problem is you can't control or check which of the two was done with the audio that got uploaded, and that is the scary part and reason enough not to allow anyone to record audio. But you can't just claim that facebook does in fact "listen" to your _conversation_ in any way we would understand as listening.
- forgetsusername 11y agoThe problem is that the choice as to whether they actually "listen" to my uploaded processed audio is up to them, not me. At this point the only assurance is "we don't listen."
- jo909 11y agoAt the end it comes down to trust, laws and maybe occams razor. We can't personally check what exactly they do with our data (not limited to this particular feature), so either we trust in what facebook assures us, or trust that they follow laws that only allow certain usage, or at least assume that there is no orchestrated plot to record me farting on the sofa and that they really only do what they claim to do because that is the simplest explanation. That can change if someone has hints or factual proof that they don't. So far I have only seen asumptions that were not in any way connected to any objective argument or fact. Of course we can reason about why keeping as much information private as possible is a good idea, how users need to be in control of their data etc, and I agree with all of that stuff. I'm not a fan of facebook at all. For me opening facebook is a horrible experience filled with content I don't care about. And of course privacy is always an issue. But I can't see what is gained by making unfounded statemets that in essence claim "facebook is lying, of course they record our conversation".
- rplnt 11y agoAndroid is in desperate need of allowing users to change permission for app. It's ridiculous that the application decides what it has access to (and android it is not making it easier with a bad permission granularity). And I believe this functionality was in some pre-release 5.0 versions. They removed it because apps would just crash if permissions were removed. However, there are apps that solve this (for rooted phones) by providing dummy (null) data on API calls that you blocked. For example, there is absolutely no reason my facebook app should ever have access to a microphone.
- cnorthwood 11y agoAndroid 6.0 has the functionality you describe - there's a warning if you try to disable it for certain apps (presumably for older API levels) though that it may cause them to crash. I imagine this'll go away with time.
- rplnt 11y agoGood to hear. Too bad one usually has to buy a new device to get an update.
- tbrownaw 11y agoOne does? Hasn't been an issue yet on my almost 2 years old (so, 2 major-revision updates) nexus 5 yet.
- rplnt 11y agoOut of 5 android devices I've owned only one received major version update (and it didn't work). So, anecdotally, one does. But I believe my case is more common than yours.
- talmand 11y agoJust to be fair, are the 5 android devices non-nexus devices? If so, that's because of the carriers and that's why it's a common problem.
- n0mad01 11y agoand i still won't use facebook.
- mrmondo 11y agoThat's one very scary invasion of privacy masked as a "feature".
- venomsnake 11y agoPhone - meet soldering gun. I am becoming more serious about installing physical breaker behind the mic and camera on whatever device I get my hands on.
- rrrhys 11y agoThat wouldn't be a very useful phone anymore.
- venomsnake 11y agoIt will be - I just connect a slider when I want it turned on
- mrob 11y agoA soldering gun is a plumbing tool. It's far too big for working on phones, and it's likely to damage them with induced current. You need a soldering iron or a hot air rework station.
- donalhunt 11y agoI wonder whether the reaction to this differs based on location of the user. Are European users more worried about this than US-based users?
- gedrap 11y agoThey introduced similar feature with football (soccer) this weekend, or earlier and I didn't notice. When one of the teams I like is playing a match, the placeholder for post status is replaced with something asking my opinion about the match and a football icon is added. Which is a decent idea to get more people updating their statuses and posting more. Regarding privacy, etc. Eh, damn, it gets boring when so many comments are about how facebook is stealing your data and what not for every post like this. Yes, we all know that and no need to remind about it every time.
- gjulianm 11y agoThere's a difference, though: you explicitly told Facebook what you like, and it's acting on it. You pressed "like" on your team, and Facebook can check if it's playing right now. However, this is different: you didn't tell Facebook "hey search what show I'm watching". Regarding the "it gets boring": yes, it's boring, but until it changes we will continue pointing it out. Because if you don't do it, people forget. We end up taking it for granted. Tell me how many people on Facebook know "Facebook steals their data" and how many of them actually act on it. What actually happens is that people have a vague idea of the privacy issues but, because "we all know it" and "it's boring" it doesn't get discussed and we end up accepting it.
- gedrap 11y ago>>> What actually happens is that people have a vague idea of the privacy issues but, because "we all know it" and "it's boring" it doesn't get discussed and we end up accepting it. After the Snowden leaks, pretty much everyone on HN is aware of the issues. So some are strongly against it and are vocal, and others silently accept it and don't think it's possible to convince them otherwise. But anyway, thank you for your nice, calm response to my semi-raging post :)
- pdkl95 11y agoSo Facebook recorded your ambient audio, uploaded it to their servers, processed that recording to discover what you were watching, all so they could prompt you with a football icon and an opinion poll? Did they get your explicit permission before turning on that microphone and uploading what it recorded? Or did they hide it behind a button? Did they explain in a way most people would understand about what they were doing with the microphone and where the feature was actually implemented?
- SlashmanX 11y agoI actually think it's pretty cool that they can identify what you're watching on TV
- SixSigma 11y agoAnd people wonder why I use the browser version!
- mootothemax 11y agoThis seems to be kicking up a fuss over nothing, and any controversy disappears once you read how to use the feature in question: Using your microphone and music apps lets you share the TV and music you’re currently playing to your posts. To identify and share what you're listening to or watching: 1. Tap Status on your News Feed or tap Write Post on your Timeline. 2. Wait for us to identify what you're listening to or watching. You'll know if we're searching for audio matches if you see [an animated icon] moving. 3. Once a match is found, tap [an icon] to select the thing you'd like to share and then fill in your status update. 4. Tap Post. https://www.facebook.com/help/android-app/710615012295337 https://www.facebook.com/help/android-app/710615012295337
- zyrthofar 11y agoThe fuss is about the data sent to Facebook's servers for "identification". You can make the decision to post it or not, but Facebook knows it in either case.
- mootothemax 11y ago>The fuss is about the data sent to Facebook's servers for "identification". You can make the decision to post it or not, but Facebook knows it in either case. But it's OK for Shazam or Soundhound? At which point is a feature just what it says on the tin?
- beyti 11y agoTheir main functionality is that data, which user knows before installing the app.
- kuschku 11y agoSo, without opt-in, they record, upload, and match the content of my conversations, without previously getting consent from all parties that might have been involved?
- mootothemax 11y ago
- jason46 11y agoWhat if someone logs into facebook during a murder, could it be considered surveillance?
- talmand 11y agoNo. As of right now Facebook is not a government entity.
- pinkunicorn 11y agoLol not sure if its good/bad news..
- MarkCole 11y agoPrivacy concerns aside, I'd be very interested on how they're doing this on a technical level. Does anyone know if they've published a post on how this is done yet? Or have any ideas on how they think it's being done?
- royjacobs 11y agoIt's called "audio fingerprinting" and it basically converts a snippet of audio from your phone is something similar to a hash of that audio. Then, using some clever algorithms, it can be quickly matched against a database of existing hashes. Because of the way the algorithm works the match doesn't have to be either 0% or 100%, because realistically whatever is recorded on your phone will never exactly match the original. Disclaimer: I used to work at a company that built this type of technology.
- MarkCole 11y agoThat is interesting, I didn't know it had a name. Now I have something to look for, Thanks!
- coldcode 11y agoAnd people complain when aliens use rectal probes. Facebook's ultimate game is to keep you entirely within its universe, know everything you know, and ensure the advertisers have exclusive access to you and your information. It's the only way to grow revenues for a free service and justify a crazy stock price.
- icewater0 11y agoNaturally, anyone within earshot of an idiot with a smartphone has opted in as well?
- jdlyga 11y agoJust turn off microphone access for the Facebook app, or don't give it access to begin with. Even with android, you should have that option in the latest version.
- remon 11y agoAlthough I agree with the general concerns raised in this thread FB is not sending raw audio to its servers and thus is not "listening" to you. The majority of work is done on the client-side. Specifically, a short audio sample is analysed client-side and turned into an audio fingerprint (the rough audio equivalent of hashing a value). That fingerprint alone is sent to the server for matching. Note that there is no way to reverse that process (hence the hash analogy) to get audible sounds out of it. Of course, this is all based on the assumption that Facebook is telling it like it is but given the fact that the difference in bandwidth use is an order of magnitude that's very easy to check.
- nonprofiteer 11y agoit's new if it's new to you but this started happening a year ago: http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2014/05/a-new-optional-way-to-share-and-discover-music-tv-and-movies/ http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2014/05/a-new-optional-way-to-sh...
- foota 11y agoInteresting that it's only enabled in the United States right now, could this be due to stricter privacy laws in other parts of the world?