7 ms·

I incorporated in Berlin with 1500EUR. I got a shelf corporation, with the documents translated to English so I didn't need an official interpreter @ 150EUR per

by pyvpx 11y ago

I incorporated in Berlin with 1500EUR. I got a shelf corporation, with the documents translated to English so I didn't need an official interpreter @ 150EUR per hour, and the notar costs included. Granted it isn't a GmbH but a UG, so I imagine for some industries that wont work; but for a boutique consulting firm it's been excellent. VAT is a mess, though. definitely. but then you hire an accountant and you get VAT + all that other tax stuff "abstracted" away for a very reasonable cost.

kawera 11y ago
I want to incorporate in Germany too and am researching the topic right now. Did you use an online incorporation service. If so, could you share a few pointers?
- pyvpx 11y ago
  there are cheaper ways to go about it, but I used Foratis and cannot speak higher of their service and product. My partner also formed her own UG but used firma.de, hired a certified but inexpensive official translator, and it took nearly four months from start to finish. Note that Foratis does not do the VAT registration for you, like some other shelf corporation providers. I didn't realize this and it became a minor pain. Whatever you do, budget for a competent Steuerberater. DIY is nearly impossible unless you have strong German skills, and even my native business owner friends don't DIY when it comes to Finanzamt dealings :)
  - kawera 11y ago
    Thank you very much! I'm not looking for the cheapest and certainly won't go the DIY route. Foratis seems very interesting and they even help opening a bank account, generally a big hurdle. Now off I go find a competent Steuerberater...
_up 11y ago
Has someone incorporated in Delaware and Headquartered in Germany? We are talking small budget here. Is this a nightmare or could work in some instances? Taxes could be a problem I heard. I am working on a feedly competitor (with Popularity Sorting) and it would make sense to concentrate on the US Market first anyway.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- germanier 11y ago
  From German view you will have to follow almost the same rules and regulations that a German company would have to follow, so not really an advantage on that front. Doing taxes will be complicated though. You would have to pay the same German taxes that every German company needs to pay but of course the US might also want their share. Navigating double-taxation treaties is not easy. If you need a legal presence in the US it's actually easiest to start two companies, one on each side of the pond, with one of them owning the other. You should definitely go to a tax consultant knowing this stuff if you consider doing such things.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    This is especially an issue with the US, which is notorious for double-taxing income of its citizen that was generated (and taxed) in other countries.
    - kspaans 11y ago
      Are you referring to double-taxing or the US's "taxing income earned abroad" policy? It looks like the US has many tax treaties[0], and it's my understanding that these treaties will usually shield you from double-taxation. What the US does do, however (as I understand it), is tax you on the difference between the income tax you pay in a foreign country and what you would pay if you were in the US. In other words, living in a foreign country with lower income tax than the US won't let you avoid paying at least as much income tax as if you were still in the US. (And if you move somewhere with higher taxes the US won't charge you any extra (nor give you tax credits! :P).) 0 - https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/International-Businesses/United-States-Income-Tax-Treaties---A-to-Z https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/International-Businesses/Unit...
      - kuschku 11y ago
        Extra paperwork (especially when you have to deal with paperwork in multiple languages) can get insanely expensive, though. Which makes the "incorporate outside the US" ineffective.
gingerlime 11y ago
I'm talking about charging VAT for customers in Europe, which means a different rate for every country, and two forms of proof for the actual location. Reporting duties and storing records for 10 years etc... For a B2C company (or even small scale B2B dealing with many small companies) this is a total and utter mess. No accountant can abstract that away to my knowledge.

by pyvpx 11y ago

kawera 11y ago

I want to incorporate in Germany too and am researching the topic right now. Did you use an online incorporation service. If so, could you share a few pointers?

pyvpx 11y ago
there are cheaper ways to go about it, but I used Foratis and cannot speak higher of their service and product. My partner also formed her own UG but used firma.de, hired a certified but inexpensive official translator, and it took nearly four months from start to finish. Note that Foratis does not do the VAT registration for you, like some other shelf corporation providers. I didn't realize this and it became a minor pain. Whatever you do, budget for a competent Steuerberater. DIY is nearly impossible unless you have strong German skills, and even my native business owner friends don't DIY when it comes to Finanzamt dealings :)
- kawera 11y ago
  Thank you very much! I'm not looking for the cheapest and certainly won't go the DIY route. Foratis seems very interesting and they even help opening a bank account, generally a big hurdle. Now off I go find a competent Steuerberater...

_up 11y ago

Has someone incorporated in Delaware and Headquartered in Germany? We are talking small budget here. Is this a nightmare or could work in some instances? Taxes could be a problem I heard. I am working on a feedly competitor (with Popularity Sorting) and it would make sense to concentrate on the US Market first anyway.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
germanier 11y ago
From German view you will have to follow almost the same rules and regulations that a German company would have to follow, so not really an advantage on that front. Doing taxes will be complicated though. You would have to pay the same German taxes that every German company needs to pay but of course the US might also want their share. Navigating double-taxation treaties is not easy. If you need a legal presence in the US it's actually easiest to start two companies, one on each side of the pond, with one of them owning the other. You should definitely go to a tax consultant knowing this stuff if you consider doing such things.
- kuschku 11y ago
  This is especially an issue with the US, which is notorious for double-taxing income of its citizen that was generated (and taxed) in other countries.
  - kspaans 11y ago
    Are you referring to double-taxing or the US's "taxing income earned abroad" policy? It looks like the US has many tax treaties[0], and it's my understanding that these treaties will usually shield you from double-taxation. What the US does do, however (as I understand it), is tax you on the difference between the income tax you pay in a foreign country and what you would pay if you were in the US. In other words, living in a foreign country with lower income tax than the US won't let you avoid paying at least as much income tax as if you were still in the US. (And if you move somewhere with higher taxes the US won't charge you any extra (nor give you tax credits! :P).) 0 - https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/International-Businesses/United-States-Income-Tax-Treaties---A-to-Z https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/International-Businesses/Unit...
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Extra paperwork (especially when you have to deal with paperwork in multiple languages) can get insanely expensive, though. Which makes the "incorporate outside the US" ineffective.

gingerlime 11y ago

I'm talking about charging VAT for customers in Europe, which means a different rate for every country, and two forms of proof for the actual location. Reporting duties and storing records for 10 years etc... For a B2C company (or even small scale B2B dealing with many small companies) this is a total and utter mess. No accountant can abstract that away to my knowledge.