4 ms·

> whether they will actually be catastrphic or not The consequences already are catastrophic. But the impact doesn't directly affect most people, and even if i

> whether they will actually be catastrphic or not The consequences already are catastrophic. But the impact doesn't directly affect most people, and even if it does, the reasons can still be obscured.

jusben1369 11y ago
> The consequences already are catastrophic How so? BTW please don't highlight normal catastrophic things like droughts or hurricanes as those have obviously always been with us.
- wtallis 11y ago
  "Don't tell me about the shifted mean, because the variance has always been non-zero"? By that logic, you're essentially trying to maximize the chances of not taking action until it's too late; early indicators of a trend are always going to be fuzzier and less certain than later mountains of evidence.
  - jusben1369 11y ago
    I was objecting to hyperbole. Sadly it is about shifting means but that doesn't make for good headlines so we get hyperbolic statements.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  Ocean acidification due to increased CO2 destroys marine ecosystems.
  - joeclark77 11y ago
    Acid rain is not caused by CO2 but by pollutants (such as SO2 and NO) which may also come from coal burning. Even if CO2 were implicated, this issue has absolutely zero to do with the theory of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming.
    - nitrogen 11y ago
      It's not acid rain, but dissolution of CO2 into oceanic water creating carbonic acid. This carbonic acid dissolves the materials many marine organisms use to construct their homes and shells. So anthropogenic CO2 (we know it's anthropogenic because of satellite measurements showing seasonal variations around population centers) caused anthropogenic climate change. Even if an unknown effect serves to counteract the massive greenhouse effect of all of our CO2, temperature is only one effect of climate change. There is also changing ocean currents due to meltwater changing salinity and temperature of the ocean, shifting of precipitation to other regions creating droughts and floods, the aforementioned acidification, etc.
- merpnderp 11y ago
  Hurricane numbers are slightly down from average, but accumulated energy is way down. 2013 holds the longest number of days on record between hurricane landfalls.

jusben1369 11y ago

> The consequences already are catastrophic How so? BTW please don't highlight normal catastrophic things like droughts or hurricanes as those have obviously always been with us.

wtallis 11y ago
"Don't tell me about the shifted mean, because the variance has always been non-zero"? By that logic, you're essentially trying to maximize the chances of not taking action until it's too late; early indicators of a trend are always going to be fuzzier and less certain than later mountains of evidence.
- jusben1369 11y ago
  I was objecting to hyperbole. Sadly it is about shifting means but that doesn't make for good headlines so we get hyperbolic statements.
nitrogen 11y ago
Ocean acidification due to increased CO2 destroys marine ecosystems.
- joeclark77 11y ago
  Acid rain is not caused by CO2 but by pollutants (such as SO2 and NO) which may also come from coal burning. Even if CO2 were implicated, this issue has absolutely zero to do with the theory of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    It's not acid rain, but dissolution of CO2 into oceanic water creating carbonic acid. This carbonic acid dissolves the materials many marine organisms use to construct their homes and shells. So anthropogenic CO2 (we know it's anthropogenic because of satellite measurements showing seasonal variations around population centers) caused anthropogenic climate change. Even if an unknown effect serves to counteract the massive greenhouse effect of all of our CO2, temperature is only one effect of climate change. There is also changing ocean currents due to meltwater changing salinity and temperature of the ocean, shifting of precipitation to other regions creating droughts and floods, the aforementioned acidification, etc.
merpnderp 11y ago
Hurricane numbers are slightly down from average, but accumulated energy is way down. 2013 holds the longest number of days on record between hurricane landfalls.