5 ms·

This is really cool. Honestly I'm surprised they still get 20Mbps after the data goes through multiple relays and a microwave connection. Are microwave links in

by jaflo 11y ago

This is really cool. Honestly I'm surprised they still get 20Mbps after the data goes through multiple relays and a microwave connection. Are microwave links in widespread use for internet communication?

JupiterMoon 11y ago
Yes.
Marazan 11y ago
Don't confuse high bandwidth for low ping. There are many high bandwidth high latency services - like satellite uplinks.
mikeyouse 11y ago
There's a whole group of companies called "Wireless ISPs" [1] that make extensive use of microwave products from companies like Ubiqti and Mimosa. Depending on the backhaul, you can get gigabit speeds over unlicensed microwave spectrum in many locations. There's a WISP in San Francisco called Monkey Brains that is a really good alternative to Comcast if you have the space for a microwave antenna on your house. [2] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Internet_service_provider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Internet_service_prov... [2] - https://www.monkeybrains.net/wireless.html https://www.monkeybrains.net/wireless.html
- GeneralMayhem 11y ago
  In SF, I'd also recommend Webpass [1], which uses point-to-point microwave to get to apartment buildings and then piggybacks on phone data lines within the building. They're cheap (by American standards - $500/yr), fast (from 100/100 to 500/500 depending on the building, usually 5ms ping), and have great service (no installation fee, tech was on time to the minute and extremely knowledgeable). [1] https://www.webpass.net https://www.webpass.net
  - pronoiac 11y ago
    Huh, I thought Webpass was about fiber to a hub for the building.
  - tlrobinson 11y ago
    I'm also super happy with WebPass. My current building gets about 400 Mbps up/down.
- sbd01 11y ago
  I actually use a Wireless ISP that uses a little satellite dish. I don't know how well it works or what kind it is, but I have mostly slow speeds, and upgrading is more expensive than it should be. Just for reference, it uses Cambium Networks' PTP-100 by Motorola. I've actually only just discovered this today and am not entirely sure what all of it does.
  - jauer 11y ago
    Assuming it's PMP100 (PTP100 is essentially the same gear, except a pair of radios dedicated to each other instead of one AP and up to 254 clients). PMP100 is capable of 14Mbps aggregate, often set to ~10Mbps download, 4 Mbps upload. It's roughly 10 years old at this point. The main benefit over WiFi, Ubiquiti, etc is it uses FSK modulation instead of OFDM so while it is slower it can go farther and tolerate more interference. Cambium has a newer product, the PMP450, that is capable of quite a bit more throughput. Right now IIRC it does ~125Mbps per sector but using OFDM modulation so you need better signal to noise, usually achieved by limiting distance to clients. The client radio on PMP100 costs ~$199. Client radios on PMP450 are license keyed by sustained capacity. A radio with 5Mbps sustained is ~$199, but unlocked ~$450 per. Many Wireless ISPs operate on tight cashflow and have trouble self-funding that with normal residential pricing so they want customers to pay for gear up front and that tends to cost too much for consumers.
jbuzbee 11y ago
Yes - I was surprised when my Son found out that his apartment complex in Boulder Colorado linked to Denver via a microwave link of 30 miles or so to get on the Internet backbone. Fiber abounds around here, but It must have been cheaper than leasing a line. Performance wasn't that great which is how he found out about the link :-(
- monocasa 11y ago
  Is he in WilVil? That's the only apartment building I can think of that would be tall enough to conceivably get line of sight to Denver. Of course feel free not to answer if you feel weird about the question (ie. location of your child).
  - jbuzbee 11y ago
    He doesn't live there anymore, but the complex was Two Nine North. I suspect that the transmitter was not on the complex itself, but instead was at some location the complex's ISP leased. He was having intermittent/nightly dropped packets, long ping times etc. He complained enough that they eventually passed him on to the technician that configured the microwave link to the Denver Tech Center area and at least to my Son, it appeared that it was set up very poorly.
- knappe 11y ago
  I'm rather surprised by this. Internet connectivity in Boulder is really quite good[0], since the University drives a lot of traffic. [0] Spent the last 11 years in Boulder.
  - jbuzbee 11y ago
    His complex, Two Nine North, likely chose the lowest bidder

by jaflo 11y ago

JupiterMoon 11y ago

Yes.

Marazan 11y ago

Don't confuse high bandwidth for low ping. There are many high bandwidth high latency services - like satellite uplinks.

mikeyouse 11y ago

There's a whole group of companies called "Wireless ISPs" [1] that make extensive use of microwave products from companies like Ubiqti and Mimosa. Depending on the backhaul, you can get gigabit speeds over unlicensed microwave spectrum in many locations. There's a WISP in San Francisco called Monkey Brains that is a really good alternative to Comcast if you have the space for a microwave antenna on your house. [2] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Internet_service_provider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Internet_service_prov... [2] - https://www.monkeybrains.net/wireless.html https://www.monkeybrains.net/wireless.html

GeneralMayhem 11y ago
In SF, I'd also recommend Webpass [1], which uses point-to-point microwave to get to apartment buildings and then piggybacks on phone data lines within the building. They're cheap (by American standards - $500/yr), fast (from 100/100 to 500/500 depending on the building, usually 5ms ping), and have great service (no installation fee, tech was on time to the minute and extremely knowledgeable). [1] https://www.webpass.net https://www.webpass.net
- pronoiac 11y ago
  Huh, I thought Webpass was about fiber to a hub for the building.
- tlrobinson 11y ago
  I'm also super happy with WebPass. My current building gets about 400 Mbps up/down.
sbd01 11y ago
I actually use a Wireless ISP that uses a little satellite dish. I don't know how well it works or what kind it is, but I have mostly slow speeds, and upgrading is more expensive than it should be. Just for reference, it uses Cambium Networks' PTP-100 by Motorola. I've actually only just discovered this today and am not entirely sure what all of it does.
- jauer 11y ago
  Assuming it's PMP100 (PTP100 is essentially the same gear, except a pair of radios dedicated to each other instead of one AP and up to 254 clients). PMP100 is capable of 14Mbps aggregate, often set to ~10Mbps download, 4 Mbps upload. It's roughly 10 years old at this point. The main benefit over WiFi, Ubiquiti, etc is it uses FSK modulation instead of OFDM so while it is slower it can go farther and tolerate more interference. Cambium has a newer product, the PMP450, that is capable of quite a bit more throughput. Right now IIRC it does ~125Mbps per sector but using OFDM modulation so you need better signal to noise, usually achieved by limiting distance to clients. The client radio on PMP100 costs ~$199. Client radios on PMP450 are license keyed by sustained capacity. A radio with 5Mbps sustained is ~$199, but unlocked ~$450 per. Many Wireless ISPs operate on tight cashflow and have trouble self-funding that with normal residential pricing so they want customers to pay for gear up front and that tends to cost too much for consumers.

jbuzbee 11y ago

Yes - I was surprised when my Son found out that his apartment complex in Boulder Colorado linked to Denver via a microwave link of 30 miles or so to get on the Internet backbone. Fiber abounds around here, but It must have been cheaper than leasing a line. Performance wasn't that great which is how he found out about the link :-(

monocasa 11y ago
Is he in WilVil? That's the only apartment building I can think of that would be tall enough to conceivably get line of sight to Denver. Of course feel free not to answer if you feel weird about the question (ie. location of your child).
- jbuzbee 11y ago
  He doesn't live there anymore, but the complex was Two Nine North. I suspect that the transmitter was not on the complex itself, but instead was at some location the complex's ISP leased. He was having intermittent/nightly dropped packets, long ping times etc. He complained enough that they eventually passed him on to the technician that configured the microwave link to the Denver Tech Center area and at least to my Son, it appeared that it was set up very poorly.
knappe 11y ago
I'm rather surprised by this. Internet connectivity in Boulder is really quite good[0], since the University drives a lot of traffic. [0] Spent the last 11 years in Boulder.
- jbuzbee 11y ago
  His complex, Two Nine North, likely chose the lowest bidder