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Disclaimer: I work at Google on Compute Engine. Sorry about your experience. It sounds like you were mostly burned by App Engine, and the unfortunate situatio

by boulos 11y ago

Disclaimer: I work at Google on Compute Engine. Sorry about your experience. It sounds like you were mostly burned by App Engine, and the unfortunate situation of a migration from old to new consoles (we have a multi year deprecation policy in some cases). The old admin console was truly awful, however within just the last few months the final nail has been driven into its coffin: you can manage your App Engine custom domain settings and SSL from inside the Developers Console rather than go through Apps. As someone on a side thread mentioned, we even have a refresh of the new console in Beta for the next month or so (want to make sure we didn't suddenly break some user flow). The integration between products is vastly better than it was 12 months ago and with gcloud (the CLI) and the Developer Console gaining maturity and scope, even three months ago the experience wasn't as good. tl;dr: Your comment is fair, but things are changing (and have changed) quickly. Take another look with a free trial account?

KB1JWQ 11y ago
> Take another look with a free trial account? I'm not OP, but I tried that in a bake-off a few months back. Setup went well, I got some free trial credit-- and immediately found my account turned suspended due to fraud concerns. Note that this was the same payment details I was using (and continue to use) for Google Apps for Domains. If GCE can't get the simple things like billing handled, I've got little faith in their ability to solve the harder problems. Curiously, a few months later (this week in fact) I got a message out of the blue telling me that my account was unsuspended. Rather obviously, I had already gone with AWS around mid-summer...
- boulos 11y ago
  Sigh. Don't get me started on our abuse handling. That said, any system will have false positives and I'm sorry you got hit by that. I assume you didn't bother talking to a person (and I don't blame you). I think my comment above still stands though: everything has improved a lot (particularly technically).
  - m_fayer 11y ago
    Dear boulos: I'm saying this to you but it is a general message to the Google Cloud division. I'm an early GAE adopter, still running a system in it to this day. I've seen your kind come and go many times. Sometimes it's a well-placed engineer, sometimes a technically capable and empowered support rep, an evangelist, something. These people show up in the community, they're empathetic, responsive and openly talk about what goes on behind the scenes. Sometimes they blog (http://ikaisays.com http://ikaisays.com) and go much deeper than the docs ever would. They make you think "google really is different." And then they disappear. And then there's crickets for a while, maybe some corporate types putting out fires and helpfully pointing everyone at the issue tracker. And then it repeats. Consistency in communication matters a lot, especially when your users are putting their livelihoods in your hands.
    - boulos 11y ago
      People come and go. For App Engine in particular (before my time) both Kevin Gibbs and Jon McAllister who "founded" the product left in 2012. You can find most of these guys over here: https://quip.com/about/ https://quip.com/about/ ;).
boundlessdreamz 11y ago
In the new console 1. Why are Credentials under API manager? 2. For API keys, OAuth 2.0 client IDs, Service accounts etc, you should add a "Last Used Date" 3. I have no idea what the service account email address listed in the Credential page is used for 4. How do I do more fine grained permissions? i.e I want a team member to have access to GCE but not Big Query. To view Storage but not delete it etc?
- boulos 11y ago
  1. Because Google (it's not just the Google Cloud console). 2. Good point. I'll see why that isn't the case (I agree strongly, it'd be nice to know if this hasn't been used so you can revoke it). 3. A lot of systems require a user/email to identify the "person" taking the action. So this one is a crazy auto generated one for you. You didn't say it, but I'd love to be able to name them (like "Default GCE Service Account" or "Service Account for that Binary I built for deploying stuff"). 4. This is something Google Cloud is behind on and we're working on it. For Storage (and PubSub) there actually are much finer grained ACLs (and you could add them as just a VIEWER role, etc.). I don't recall if we yet support the "Bob can use GCE but not BigQuery". Expect updates here soon. Edit: more blank lines
  - boundlessdreamz 11y ago
    1. Didn't get that. IMO Enabling/disabling APIs should be a separate menu item from Credentials. 2. Ok. 3. Yeah. Naming is a start. I also want to know what does it have access to. 4. Yeah. It's quite messy. Also there are Service Accounts in "Credentials" and also in "Permissions". There are multiple "Google APIs service account" in Permissions. I have no idea what they are for and what does it have access to

by boulos 11y ago

KB1JWQ 11y ago

> Take another look with a free trial account? I'm not OP, but I tried that in a bake-off a few months back. Setup went well, I got some free trial credit-- and immediately found my account turned suspended due to fraud concerns. Note that this was the same payment details I was using (and continue to use) for Google Apps for Domains. If GCE can't get the simple things like billing handled, I've got little faith in their ability to solve the harder problems. Curiously, a few months later (this week in fact) I got a message out of the blue telling me that my account was unsuspended. Rather obviously, I had already gone with AWS around mid-summer...

boulos 11y ago
Sigh. Don't get me started on our abuse handling. That said, any system will have false positives and I'm sorry you got hit by that. I assume you didn't bother talking to a person (and I don't blame you). I think my comment above still stands though: everything has improved a lot (particularly technically).
- m_fayer 11y ago
  Dear boulos: I'm saying this to you but it is a general message to the Google Cloud division. I'm an early GAE adopter, still running a system in it to this day. I've seen your kind come and go many times. Sometimes it's a well-placed engineer, sometimes a technically capable and empowered support rep, an evangelist, something. These people show up in the community, they're empathetic, responsive and openly talk about what goes on behind the scenes. Sometimes they blog (http://ikaisays.com http://ikaisays.com) and go much deeper than the docs ever would. They make you think "google really is different." And then they disappear. And then there's crickets for a while, maybe some corporate types putting out fires and helpfully pointing everyone at the issue tracker. And then it repeats. Consistency in communication matters a lot, especially when your users are putting their livelihoods in your hands.
  - boulos 11y ago
    People come and go. For App Engine in particular (before my time) both Kevin Gibbs and Jon McAllister who "founded" the product left in 2012. You can find most of these guys over here: https://quip.com/about/ https://quip.com/about/ ;).

boundlessdreamz 11y ago

In the new console 1. Why are Credentials under API manager? 2. For API keys, OAuth 2.0 client IDs, Service accounts etc, you should add a "Last Used Date" 3. I have no idea what the service account email address listed in the Credential page is used for 4. How do I do more fine grained permissions? i.e I want a team member to have access to GCE but not Big Query. To view Storage but not delete it etc?

boulos 11y ago
1. Because Google (it's not just the Google Cloud console). 2. Good point. I'll see why that isn't the case (I agree strongly, it'd be nice to know if this hasn't been used so you can revoke it). 3. A lot of systems require a user/email to identify the "person" taking the action. So this one is a crazy auto generated one for you. You didn't say it, but I'd love to be able to name them (like "Default GCE Service Account" or "Service Account for that Binary I built for deploying stuff"). 4. This is something Google Cloud is behind on and we're working on it. For Storage (and PubSub) there actually are much finer grained ACLs (and you could add them as just a VIEWER role, etc.). I don't recall if we yet support the "Bob can use GCE but not BigQuery". Expect updates here soon. Edit: more blank lines
- boundlessdreamz 11y ago
  1. Didn't get that. IMO Enabling/disabling APIs should be a separate menu item from Credentials. 2. Ok. 3. Yeah. Naming is a start. I also want to know what does it have access to. 4. Yeah. It's quite messy. Also there are Service Accounts in "Credentials" and also in "Permissions". There are multiple "Google APIs service account" in Permissions. I have no idea what they are for and what does it have access to