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This is one of the better reasons for opting for open-source alternatives to new technologies. If you have a single person that is even slightly technical, it

by ve55 11y ago

This is one of the better reasons for opting for open-source alternatives to new technologies. If you have a single person that is even slightly technical, it should be trivial to set up your own IRC server, and then you get complete control over all of your own information. Even with that, you still can choose from a multitude of servers, services, clients, bots, client scripts, bouncers, and so on. Anything common you want to add on after that point has likely already been written for what your purposes (and is of course open-source), whether it's a git commit bot, a logging/relay bot, or even end-to-end encryption (even after TLS). It's even quick to write custom IRC bots for arbitrary purposes if you use a framework or copy some example code (even without that, it is only so bad).

jmfayard 11y ago
Good luck pretending than "setting-up your own IRC server" is easier than not having to care about such a thing, and that most people really enjoy to have to "choose from a multitude of servers, services, clients, bots, client scripts, bouncers, and myriad of bots" instead of just going to https://slack.com/downloads https://slack.com/downloads The article does not even discuss the fact that projects that opened a slack community with a big increase in their audience. Apparently audience is much less important than purity.
- ve55 11y ago
  You're correct, I understand why most people don't want that, and thus also why Slack is so hugely popular. I'm primarily thinking about technical people who actually do want this (such as what's referred to in the article, people working on open source projects or who otherwise require things not offered by slack).
  - vjeux 11y ago
    You underestimate how much effort it is to mantain a service running. I setup a irc logger for React and it would go down every other week, I was pinged at random times by people saying it was down and either needed to drop everything I was doing to fix it or let it be broken for a while. I want to spend my time working on React, not be a sysadmin for the irc bot. I switched to botbot.me and it's been always up and with a much better interface :)
    - bitJericho 11y ago
      Services went down for me sometimes on a private IRC server. I setup a cron to check for failure and start if needed. Took 10 minutes.
mgkimsal 11y ago
> If you have a single person that is even slightly technical, it should be trivial to set up your own IRC server, and then you get complete control over all of your own information. That's a pretty narrow view of 'slightly technical'. These days, we've got generations of people who can manage their own email account setup, install web apps and mysql databases, configure zapier to connect multiple apps together within a few minutes. I know dozens of people who do things like this all day long for their clients. I'd call all these people more than "slightly technical", but there's no way on earth they'd be qualified to set up and administer an IRC server. You need far more than "slightly technical". "Slightly technical" sets you up for disaster. And... it's not 'trivial' to understand what's going on and how to manage it. I agree, though, it should be trivial. It's just not.
- geggam 11y ago
  I think the meaning of "slightly technical" on hacker news should be a bit more than an enduser skillset. Technology isn't easy. Pretending it should be causes problems.
  - mgkimsal 11y ago
    somewhat agreed, but I sort of think folks here get a bit insulated and have an inflated view of what "trivial" is. I've done a lot of sysadmin stuff for years, and web work for 20. Setting up an IRC server for me would not be 'trivial' either. Earlier this year I was told by several people that setting up an icecast server was 'trivial' too - anything but, ime.
    - Gracana 11y ago
      It's the sort of thing that's really easy to do poorly. I can skim ircd docs and get something running, but making sure it's set up correctly and securely is another thing entirely.
morgante 11y ago
> If you have a single person that is even slightly technical, it should be trivial to set up your own IRC server, and then you get complete control over all of your own information. I'm "slightly" technical and I have absolutely no interest in setting up an IRC server for my project or company. That's time better spent on developing our offerings. While I have no doubt I could set up a server, I also have no doubt that setting it up and maintaining it would drain time unnecessarily. It's the same reason that I don't advocate for most people to maintain their own servers in 2015.
- jarek 11y ago
  Sure, but ve55 said "trivial", not "interesting" or "worth the time." It just means that you value your data and its ownership a certain way and your time a certain way. Also note that a for-profit company will have that balance in a different spot than a FOSS project.
  - morgante 11y ago
    To be clear, I don't think it is "trivial." I am technical and I definitely don't think setting up and maintaining a usable IRC server is trivial.

by ve55 11y ago

jmfayard 11y ago

Good luck pretending than "setting-up your own IRC server" is easier than not having to care about such a thing, and that most people really enjoy to have to "choose from a multitude of servers, services, clients, bots, client scripts, bouncers, and myriad of bots" instead of just going to https://slack.com/downloads https://slack.com/downloads The article does not even discuss the fact that projects that opened a slack community with a big increase in their audience. Apparently audience is much less important than purity.

ve55 11y ago
You're correct, I understand why most people don't want that, and thus also why Slack is so hugely popular. I'm primarily thinking about technical people who actually do want this (such as what's referred to in the article, people working on open source projects or who otherwise require things not offered by slack).
- vjeux 11y ago
  You underestimate how much effort it is to mantain a service running. I setup a irc logger for React and it would go down every other week, I was pinged at random times by people saying it was down and either needed to drop everything I was doing to fix it or let it be broken for a while. I want to spend my time working on React, not be a sysadmin for the irc bot. I switched to botbot.me and it's been always up and with a much better interface :)
  - bitJericho 11y ago
    Services went down for me sometimes on a private IRC server. I setup a cron to check for failure and start if needed. Took 10 minutes.

mgkimsal 11y ago

> If you have a single person that is even slightly technical, it should be trivial to set up your own IRC server, and then you get complete control over all of your own information. That's a pretty narrow view of 'slightly technical'. These days, we've got generations of people who can manage their own email account setup, install web apps and mysql databases, configure zapier to connect multiple apps together within a few minutes. I know dozens of people who do things like this all day long for their clients. I'd call all these people more than "slightly technical", but there's no way on earth they'd be qualified to set up and administer an IRC server. You need far more than "slightly technical". "Slightly technical" sets you up for disaster. And... it's not 'trivial' to understand what's going on and how to manage it. I agree, though, it should be trivial. It's just not.

geggam 11y ago
I think the meaning of "slightly technical" on hacker news should be a bit more than an enduser skillset. Technology isn't easy. Pretending it should be causes problems.
- mgkimsal 11y ago
  somewhat agreed, but I sort of think folks here get a bit insulated and have an inflated view of what "trivial" is. I've done a lot of sysadmin stuff for years, and web work for 20. Setting up an IRC server for me would not be 'trivial' either. Earlier this year I was told by several people that setting up an icecast server was 'trivial' too - anything but, ime.
  - Gracana 11y ago
    It's the sort of thing that's really easy to do poorly. I can skim ircd docs and get something running, but making sure it's set up correctly and securely is another thing entirely.

morgante 11y ago

> If you have a single person that is even slightly technical, it should be trivial to set up your own IRC server, and then you get complete control over all of your own information. I'm "slightly" technical and I have absolutely no interest in setting up an IRC server for my project or company. That's time better spent on developing our offerings. While I have no doubt I could set up a server, I also have no doubt that setting it up and maintaining it would drain time unnecessarily. It's the same reason that I don't advocate for most people to maintain their own servers in 2015.

jarek 11y ago
Sure, but ve55 said "trivial", not "interesting" or "worth the time." It just means that you value your data and its ownership a certain way and your time a certain way. Also note that a for-profit company will have that balance in a different spot than a FOSS project.
- morgante 11y ago
  To be clear, I don't think it is "trivial." I am technical and I definitely don't think setting up and maintaining a usable IRC server is trivial.