5 ms·

There's a long history of railroad involvement in time changes, e.g., the "Day of two Noons". Adjustments for railroads are why we have time zones, and why Date

There's a long history of railroad involvement in time changes, e.g., the "Day of two Noons". Adjustments for railroads are why we have time zones, and why Date.toLocaleString has weird minute and second offsets for pre-1800 dates: http://curtisautery.appspot.com/5779342353235968 http://curtisautery.appspot.com/5779342353235968

userbinator 11y ago
The alternative would be for everyone to use something like UTC, which means that while their relationship to the sun changes depending on location, the actual value is the same everywhere. I find this especially useful when scheduling online meetings with participants from many countries.
- speakeron 11y ago
  Yes, that's a cool way to do it and somewhat natural if you're a server person; but perhaps mentally challenging for a lot of people. Remember Swatch Internet Time[1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
  - nebulus 11y ago
    I wish this would catch on again. Swatch Internet Time was a pre-Twitter invention, and the live global connection to one another was weaker than it is now. I'd love to see it supported as a timestamp in forum software, Twitter clients, etc.
- jessriedel 11y ago
  Right, but if you only use UTC then you can't tell when it's appropriate to call people or schedule meeting in various parts of the world. ("OK, this person is in Hong Kong and I want to schedule the meeting at 11:00 UTC. What time does the sun rise in Hong Kong?")
  - jwmerrill 11y ago
    It seems like this is no different than the current situation. Today, you look up what time it is in Hong Kong. In UTC world, you look up what hours are business hours in Hong Kong.
    - ottonomy 11y ago
      Yeah. China has one time-zone, but is wide enough for five, and they already treat time like this. The last week has been stupid, with UK and Europe already switching back to standard time with the US lagging on DST. UTC Now! (Sent at 16:16 UTC)
    - paublyrne 11y ago
      It is really. 'Business hours' isn't scientifically defined. If I say to Google, 'time in Melbourne', I'll see it's 3.11AM. And if I need to know what time it is in three of my offices, I can save those cities in my clock and swipe between them at any time.
      - jwmerrill 11y ago
        UTC would make some things easier and some things harder. I think it would make reliably scheduling meetings easier. Suppose you want to schedule a phone call for two weeks from now with your colleague in Melbourne. That's currently kind of challenging. It's fairly easy to accidentally agree to an inconsistent time. What if that two weeks straddles a DST change in one country, but not the other? In UTC world, you agree to a single time, and there's no confusion. To pick an appropriate time, just look up the range of business hours in Melbohrne, and intersect those hours with the business hours wherever you are. I don't really see how your google or clock app examples are compelling. Just google "business hours in Melbourne", and then save those in an app or wherever if you think you'll want that information again soon.
      - OJFord 11y ago
        > I can save those cities in my clock and swipe between them at any time. If everyone used UTC, you could have just one clock, and turn it into a (possibly overlapping) pie chart - a different colour for each of your office's (approximate) business hours.
- cxseven 11y ago
  Don't forget that UTC has leap seconds, too. This may not cause problems for trains, but it does for servers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839458 TAI is like UTC but without leap seconds.
- kybernetikos 11y ago
  That's a bit like my time system I've been pushing. http://kybernetikos.com/2012/11/26/modern-times-a-new-clock/ http://kybernetikos.com/2012/11/26/modern-times-a-new-clock/ or just the clock http://kybernetikos.github.io/UIT/ http://kybernetikos.github.io/UIT/ You need to share your location so that it knows how to rotate the numbers on the face and how to draw the sunrise/sunset times on the dial.

userbinator 11y ago

The alternative would be for everyone to use something like UTC, which means that while their relationship to the sun changes depending on location, the actual value is the same everywhere. I find this especially useful when scheduling online meetings with participants from many countries.

speakeron 11y ago
Yes, that's a cool way to do it and somewhat natural if you're a server person; but perhaps mentally challenging for a lot of people. Remember Swatch Internet Time[1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
- nebulus 11y ago
  I wish this would catch on again. Swatch Internet Time was a pre-Twitter invention, and the live global connection to one another was weaker than it is now. I'd love to see it supported as a timestamp in forum software, Twitter clients, etc.
jessriedel 11y ago
Right, but if you only use UTC then you can't tell when it's appropriate to call people or schedule meeting in various parts of the world. ("OK, this person is in Hong Kong and I want to schedule the meeting at 11:00 UTC. What time does the sun rise in Hong Kong?")
- jwmerrill 11y ago
  It seems like this is no different than the current situation. Today, you look up what time it is in Hong Kong. In UTC world, you look up what hours are business hours in Hong Kong.
  - ottonomy 11y ago
    Yeah. China has one time-zone, but is wide enough for five, and they already treat time like this. The last week has been stupid, with UK and Europe already switching back to standard time with the US lagging on DST. UTC Now! (Sent at 16:16 UTC)
  - paublyrne 11y ago
    It is really. 'Business hours' isn't scientifically defined. If I say to Google, 'time in Melbourne', I'll see it's 3.11AM. And if I need to know what time it is in three of my offices, I can save those cities in my clock and swipe between them at any time.
    - jwmerrill 11y ago
      UTC would make some things easier and some things harder. I think it would make reliably scheduling meetings easier. Suppose you want to schedule a phone call for two weeks from now with your colleague in Melbourne. That's currently kind of challenging. It's fairly easy to accidentally agree to an inconsistent time. What if that two weeks straddles a DST change in one country, but not the other? In UTC world, you agree to a single time, and there's no confusion. To pick an appropriate time, just look up the range of business hours in Melbohrne, and intersect those hours with the business hours wherever you are. I don't really see how your google or clock app examples are compelling. Just google "business hours in Melbourne", and then save those in an app or wherever if you think you'll want that information again soon.
    - OJFord 11y ago
      > I can save those cities in my clock and swipe between them at any time. If everyone used UTC, you could have just one clock, and turn it into a (possibly overlapping) pie chart - a different colour for each of your office's (approximate) business hours.
cxseven 11y ago
Don't forget that UTC has leap seconds, too. This may not cause problems for trains, but it does for servers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839458 TAI is like UTC but without leap seconds.
kybernetikos 11y ago
That's a bit like my time system I've been pushing. http://kybernetikos.com/2012/11/26/modern-times-a-new-clock/ http://kybernetikos.com/2012/11/26/modern-times-a-new-clock/ or just the clock http://kybernetikos.github.io/UIT/ http://kybernetikos.github.io/UIT/ You need to share your location so that it knows how to rotate the numbers on the face and how to draw the sunrise/sunset times on the dial.