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>Poor people don't think of it that way. When they borrow $300 for a short-term loan and have to pay $30 for the privilege, they're making a rational decision t

>Poor people don't think of it that way. When they borrow $300 for a short-term loan and have to pay $30 for the privilege, they're making a rational decision that the $30 later isn't worth as much as the $300 now. They're not making a rational decision. It's an amygdala based decision. The same part of your brain that deals with panic, fight / flight, etc. The resource constraints they are under make it impossible to think long term the same way that you stop thinking about your pension plan when you're running away from a bear. This is why it's such a profitable business (non-rational decisions -> profit), and why, when you take payday loans away, poor people actually end up better off (there have been studies on this that I know for a fact you will not attempt to research).

vinceguidry 11y ago
Again, it sounds like you believe poor people cannot actually make any decisions at all. It's true, their options are limited by lack of means. But they are not automatons that have their every choice made for them by greedy capitalists. > It's an amygdala based decision. That's utterly silly. To be eligible for a payday loan, you have to have a paycheck. One cannot hold down a job long enough to qualify for a payday loan if you are constantly in fight-flight mode. Again, there's a recent article you should read about payday loans. The vast majority of people use them in the same way and for the same reasons we use a credit card, to handle unexpected expenses, and pay them off within a few weeks. The number of people carrying balances is only a few percent. Obviously, they would be better off if you could just give them credit cards, maybe, but that's not an option. You're allowing your beliefs about what it's like to be poor override the glaringly-obvious fact that 99% of all the people in the entire world are poor. If it were really the mind-crushingly awful thing you're portraying it as, then we never would have built civilization at all because none of us would have any long-term thinking at all. I'm not going to go look the payday loan studies you point to because it's a side-show to the main disagreement we're having about what it's like to be poor.
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  >Again, it sounds like you believe poor people cannot actually make any decisions at all What you said to yourself in your head while reading my words is immaterial. >> It's an amygdala based decision. >That's utterly silly. Because the limbic system does not engage if one has a job? What's utterly silly is the firmly held and unquestioning assumption that you hold that decisions made by humans under extreme pressure are always rational. Despite the evidence to the contrary. Nonetheless, I suppose it is a convenient assumption to make should one wish to engage in exploitation of the poverty stricken for profit.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    > What you said to yourself in your head while reading my words is immaterial. No, it's me trying to articulate the overall impression you're giving me so that we can have a real discussion rather than just talk around each other's ideology. But you don't seem to want to do that. > Because the limbic system does not engage if one has a job? Fight-flight responses are temporary. Way more temporary than it takes to wait in line at a payday loan shop.
    - crdoconnor 11y ago
      >No, it's me trying to articulate the overall impression you're giving me so that we can have a real discussion rather than just talk around each other's ideology. But you don't seem to want to do that. I'm not "talking around" your ideology. I'm highlighting the deficiencies in the assumptions that structurally underpin it (i.e. the myth of the rational investor/consumer), pointing to research that supports the disproval of that presumption. Your lack of desire to examine those wrong assumptions which your own ideology relies upon is the actual reason why we are not having a real discussion. >Fight-flight responses are temporary. Fight/flight mode is as temporary as the threat which you are responding to. Ask a soldier suffering from PTSD if it's "only ever temporary". Seriously. Do. >Way more temporary than it takes to wait in line at a payday loan shop. We've already established pretty well that your self-professed ability to analyze the psychology of poverty mainly revolves around gawping at it from a distance on the Pablo Escobar tour and maybe being short of money once or twice in your life.
lifeisstillgood 11y ago
Could you provide said research please - looks useful

vinceguidry 11y ago

Again, it sounds like you believe poor people cannot actually make any decisions at all. It's true, their options are limited by lack of means. But they are not automatons that have their every choice made for them by greedy capitalists. > It's an amygdala based decision. That's utterly silly. To be eligible for a payday loan, you have to have a paycheck. One cannot hold down a job long enough to qualify for a payday loan if you are constantly in fight-flight mode. Again, there's a recent article you should read about payday loans. The vast majority of people use them in the same way and for the same reasons we use a credit card, to handle unexpected expenses, and pay them off within a few weeks. The number of people carrying balances is only a few percent. Obviously, they would be better off if you could just give them credit cards, maybe, but that's not an option. You're allowing your beliefs about what it's like to be poor override the glaringly-obvious fact that 99% of all the people in the entire world are poor. If it were really the mind-crushingly awful thing you're portraying it as, then we never would have built civilization at all because none of us would have any long-term thinking at all. I'm not going to go look the payday loan studies you point to because it's a side-show to the main disagreement we're having about what it's like to be poor.

crdoconnor 11y ago
>Again, it sounds like you believe poor people cannot actually make any decisions at all What you said to yourself in your head while reading my words is immaterial. >> It's an amygdala based decision. >That's utterly silly. Because the limbic system does not engage if one has a job? What's utterly silly is the firmly held and unquestioning assumption that you hold that decisions made by humans under extreme pressure are always rational. Despite the evidence to the contrary. Nonetheless, I suppose it is a convenient assumption to make should one wish to engage in exploitation of the poverty stricken for profit.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  > What you said to yourself in your head while reading my words is immaterial. No, it's me trying to articulate the overall impression you're giving me so that we can have a real discussion rather than just talk around each other's ideology. But you don't seem to want to do that. > Because the limbic system does not engage if one has a job? Fight-flight responses are temporary. Way more temporary than it takes to wait in line at a payday loan shop.
  - crdoconnor 11y ago
    >No, it's me trying to articulate the overall impression you're giving me so that we can have a real discussion rather than just talk around each other's ideology. But you don't seem to want to do that. I'm not "talking around" your ideology. I'm highlighting the deficiencies in the assumptions that structurally underpin it (i.e. the myth of the rational investor/consumer), pointing to research that supports the disproval of that presumption. Your lack of desire to examine those wrong assumptions which your own ideology relies upon is the actual reason why we are not having a real discussion. >Fight-flight responses are temporary. Fight/flight mode is as temporary as the threat which you are responding to. Ask a soldier suffering from PTSD if it's "only ever temporary". Seriously. Do. >Way more temporary than it takes to wait in line at a payday loan shop. We've already established pretty well that your self-professed ability to analyze the psychology of poverty mainly revolves around gawping at it from a distance on the Pablo Escobar tour and maybe being short of money once or twice in your life.

lifeisstillgood 11y ago

Could you provide said research please - looks useful