4 ms·

I've always wondered: since I don't have the ability or power to negotiate these contracts, are they even a legal contract regardless of if I agree to them? Mo

I've always wondered: since I don't have the ability or power to negotiate these contracts, are they even a legal contract regardless of if I agree to them? Moreover, as a consumer, all (or nearly all) establishments that sell similar products use similar contracts, so do I actually have a choice?

waqf 11y ago
They are generally legally enforceable contracts but sometimes not: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_of_adhesion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_of_adhesion.
hackuser 11y ago
The article made clear that they are enforced.
Silhouette 11y ago
Maybe this depends on jurisdiction, but here in the UK these kinds of agreements have legal weight but there are also various consumer protection laws that can trump them if the terms are unfair or if the agreement doesn't disclose certain important information in a suitably prominent way. Contrary to what the cynics are saying elsewhere in this discussion, those consumer protection laws are actually growing stronger and adapting better to the electronic age as time passes, at least here and apparently across Europe more generally. There were some big changes just this month, in fact. An interesting experience we had while preparing terms for a new on-line B2C service was being advised by a lawyer who is actually a barrister (i.e., one who does courtroom advocacy) rather than the more usual solicitor. Our lawyer was very strongly in favour of using plain language and of having important but potentially non-obvious or unexpected terms prominent and near the start of the agreement. In other words, he was very keen that the agreement really should be written how you would hope these things would be written. His argument was that if brown stuff ever actually hit the fan, it's going to be up to a court to interpret the agreement, and that court is going to do so in a reasonable way based on what the parties involved thought they were signing up for. As such, it's less likely that a court would uphold some sneaky term hidden on page 974 that no normal user would ever have read, but if you have something unusual and it's clearly spelled out and prominently highlighted within the first few terms then it probably would stand up unless there's some strong legal argument against it (such as being automatically unfair under the consumer protection laws, for example).
kemitchell 11y ago
If you're interested in more reading on this under US law, a few helpful search terms: "contract of adhesion", "unconscionability", "click wrap", "browse wrap", "meeting of the minds", "indication of assent".

waqf 11y ago

They are generally legally enforceable contracts but sometimes not: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_of_adhesion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_of_adhesion.

hackuser 11y ago

The article made clear that they are enforced.

Silhouette 11y ago

Maybe this depends on jurisdiction, but here in the UK these kinds of agreements have legal weight but there are also various consumer protection laws that can trump them if the terms are unfair or if the agreement doesn't disclose certain important information in a suitably prominent way. Contrary to what the cynics are saying elsewhere in this discussion, those consumer protection laws are actually growing stronger and adapting better to the electronic age as time passes, at least here and apparently across Europe more generally. There were some big changes just this month, in fact. An interesting experience we had while preparing terms for a new on-line B2C service was being advised by a lawyer who is actually a barrister (i.e., one who does courtroom advocacy) rather than the more usual solicitor. Our lawyer was very strongly in favour of using plain language and of having important but potentially non-obvious or unexpected terms prominent and near the start of the agreement. In other words, he was very keen that the agreement really should be written how you would hope these things would be written. His argument was that if brown stuff ever actually hit the fan, it's going to be up to a court to interpret the agreement, and that court is going to do so in a reasonable way based on what the parties involved thought they were signing up for. As such, it's less likely that a court would uphold some sneaky term hidden on page 974 that no normal user would ever have read, but if you have something unusual and it's clearly spelled out and prominently highlighted within the first few terms then it probably would stand up unless there's some strong legal argument against it (such as being automatically unfair under the consumer protection laws, for example).

kemitchell 11y ago

If you're interested in more reading on this under US law, a few helpful search terms: "contract of adhesion", "unconscionability", "click wrap", "browse wrap", "meeting of the minds", "indication of assent".