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Hello from the "Eastern District of Texas" (I live 27 miles from the US Courthouse in Marshall). The lack of educated citizens with critical thinking skills is

Hello from the "Eastern District of Texas" (I live 27 miles from the US Courthouse in Marshall). The lack of educated citizens with critical thinking skills is overwhelming. This is why juries hand down absurd findings in patent troll cases. "All this technical mumbo jumbo just makes my head spin". I've sat on mock juries for corporate law firms before (IP/patent law is interesting and easy money to sit for mock jury) and more than once I've skewed their findings because of my technical/electronics background. During the breaks the folks that are participating are total block heads that don't understand even the most elementary explanations given. I now often wonder if patent cases should be trial by jury or trial by subject matter expert panels. The lack of technical literacy shows that the populace is woefully unprepared to serve as jurors in these cases.

WildUtah 11y ago
The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit is the specialized patent appeals court. It was created in 1982. Before that the regular appeals courts heard patent appeals. The idea was that subject matter experts and scientist-judges would be better able to adjudicate complicated patent appeals. What we got from the CAFC was the explosion of software patents, regular messes of abusive patent rules, an overwhelming bias against small companies accused of infringement by monster corps with patent portfolios, legalization of patents based on abstract ideas, and regular rebukes by the Supreme Court that has to try to rein them in with regular 9-0 decisions that the CAFC then finds ways to ignore. The problem is that anyone who could get appointed to such a court is probably personally invested in the power of the patent system. His history is probably in mega corps with thousands of patents to block innovative disruptors. Such a judge's future prestige and professional respect is determined by how much he supports omnipotent and unlimited patents with little review of validity. So these judges are inevitably judging their own careers in every case. They are as biased and corrupt as you might expect anyone to be when asked to judge the limits of his own power and influence. No. Cases should not be tried by juries of subject matter experts. That just leads to more corruption. We do need better rules that make it harder to abuse the system, but we're better off with ordinary judges and juries making the decisions, even though they sometimes screw it up through ignorance. At least they aren't screwing it up by malice like certain federal judges.
- gohrt 11y ago
  What sort of rules can make it harder to abuse the system, if you insist that the people who enforce the rules must have no understanding of how the rules work?
- nitrogen 11y ago
  What about having juries composed of actual peers? That is, randomly selected experts, half from industry and half from academia? The lack of prolonged engagement and predictable assignment to cases should make it harder to end up with another CAFC.
  - JupiterMoon 11y ago
    The point is that this leads to corruption. A jury-of-peers reflects and represents wider society. A jury-of-some-selected-close-peers as you are suggesting would not reflect the needs of wider society. Other other hand the broadly selected jury won't be able to understand technical cases. Its 6 one half-a-dozen the other. (UK English expression that means both ways have major flaws and neither is ideal.)
    - ownagefool 11y ago
      Scottish here. I'd say that saying actually means both are ultimatly the same, as in they might be difference but they're both equally negative. In this case, it would indeed be refering your assessment that both ways have major flaws and neither is ideal. But the point is, it has a wider meaning that could be invoked when comparing two good outcomes, for example.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - ksenzee 11y ago
      Six of one, half a dozen of the other is also widely used in the US, to mean it doesn't really matter which one you pick because they're pretty much the same.
    - 11y ago
CyberDildonics 11y ago
It should be a jury one's peers, but for some reason we've decided that the average uninformed person is a peer to everyone.
vogt 11y ago
>The lack of educated citizens with critical thinking skills is overwhelming. Very true, and very much a bummer. I really like that part of the state otherwise. I've spent some time out in Quitman and have considered moving out that way working remotely. I don't think I could ever get over that hump though.
- keithpeter 11y ago
  What is it that you like? The countryside? Other aspects of the local population (sincerity, faith &c)? Nice to hear something positive about East Texas over in the UK.
  - noddingham 11y ago
    I grew in East Texas. I think it is the same as many areas; yes there are vocal groups that paint a picture for the entire region, but individually I think you'll find some of the nicest, most honest, sincere people around. Many of whom are educated and well-read. I'm sure just like in your hometown. It's unfortunate those are not the people you see on TV or quoted in the news. As a caveat, there was a four-year public university in my hometown. Definitely a slower pace of life. I can't go out to eat or to the grocery store in my hometown without running into someone I know, went to school with, etc.
    - vogt 11y ago
      I just replied with basically the same answer. I am from MA but have spent time in ETX. It was nice to go into Brookshire's in Quitman and be approached by people who knew I wasn't from town, and be welcomed into their homes or just have a friendly conversation. Canoeing on lake Winnesboro and chatting with the regulars at the store on the water there, etc.
  - vogt 11y ago
    The countryside is a big part of it. Like a lot of Texas, large plots of land can be had for cheap. I had a friend I would spend time with who had 20 acres with farm animals and pets, and we'd ride around his property on ATVs traversing creeks and the like. I found it beautiful and calming. There's also lots of big lakes for fishing and boating which is a pastime of mine. Folks in the grocery store would recognize that I was an outside and approach me, introduce themselves, welcome me to their homes. There may be many a technological rube out there, but a lot of nice people outside of that
MichaelGG 11y ago
This is the problem with juries in general. No one understands basic probability or how to treat evidence. It might be more apparent in technical cases, but it's just as much a miscarriage of justice in most other cases, too.
AndrewKemendo 11y ago
the folks that are participating are total block heads that don't understand even the most elementary explanations given. You could expand that to describe the entirety of the modern electorate and you would have your answer for most of the ills of society.

WildUtah 11y ago

The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit is the specialized patent appeals court. It was created in 1982. Before that the regular appeals courts heard patent appeals. The idea was that subject matter experts and scientist-judges would be better able to adjudicate complicated patent appeals. What we got from the CAFC was the explosion of software patents, regular messes of abusive patent rules, an overwhelming bias against small companies accused of infringement by monster corps with patent portfolios, legalization of patents based on abstract ideas, and regular rebukes by the Supreme Court that has to try to rein them in with regular 9-0 decisions that the CAFC then finds ways to ignore. The problem is that anyone who could get appointed to such a court is probably personally invested in the power of the patent system. His history is probably in mega corps with thousands of patents to block innovative disruptors. Such a judge's future prestige and professional respect is determined by how much he supports omnipotent and unlimited patents with little review of validity. So these judges are inevitably judging their own careers in every case. They are as biased and corrupt as you might expect anyone to be when asked to judge the limits of his own power and influence. No. Cases should not be tried by juries of subject matter experts. That just leads to more corruption. We do need better rules that make it harder to abuse the system, but we're better off with ordinary judges and juries making the decisions, even though they sometimes screw it up through ignorance. At least they aren't screwing it up by malice like certain federal judges.

gohrt 11y ago
What sort of rules can make it harder to abuse the system, if you insist that the people who enforce the rules must have no understanding of how the rules work?
nitrogen 11y ago
What about having juries composed of actual peers? That is, randomly selected experts, half from industry and half from academia? The lack of prolonged engagement and predictable assignment to cases should make it harder to end up with another CAFC.
- JupiterMoon 11y ago
  The point is that this leads to corruption. A jury-of-peers reflects and represents wider society. A jury-of-some-selected-close-peers as you are suggesting would not reflect the needs of wider society. Other other hand the broadly selected jury won't be able to understand technical cases. Its 6 one half-a-dozen the other. (UK English expression that means both ways have major flaws and neither is ideal.)
  - ownagefool 11y ago
    Scottish here. I'd say that saying actually means both are ultimatly the same, as in they might be difference but they're both equally negative. In this case, it would indeed be refering your assessment that both ways have major flaws and neither is ideal. But the point is, it has a wider meaning that could be invoked when comparing two good outcomes, for example.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - ksenzee 11y ago
    Six of one, half a dozen of the other is also widely used in the US, to mean it doesn't really matter which one you pick because they're pretty much the same.
  - 11y ago

CyberDildonics 11y ago

It should be a jury one's peers, but for some reason we've decided that the average uninformed person is a peer to everyone.

vogt 11y ago

>The lack of educated citizens with critical thinking skills is overwhelming. Very true, and very much a bummer. I really like that part of the state otherwise. I've spent some time out in Quitman and have considered moving out that way working remotely. I don't think I could ever get over that hump though.

keithpeter 11y ago
What is it that you like? The countryside? Other aspects of the local population (sincerity, faith &c)? Nice to hear something positive about East Texas over in the UK.
- noddingham 11y ago
  I grew in East Texas. I think it is the same as many areas; yes there are vocal groups that paint a picture for the entire region, but individually I think you'll find some of the nicest, most honest, sincere people around. Many of whom are educated and well-read. I'm sure just like in your hometown. It's unfortunate those are not the people you see on TV or quoted in the news. As a caveat, there was a four-year public university in my hometown. Definitely a slower pace of life. I can't go out to eat or to the grocery store in my hometown without running into someone I know, went to school with, etc.
  - vogt 11y ago
    I just replied with basically the same answer. I am from MA but have spent time in ETX. It was nice to go into Brookshire's in Quitman and be approached by people who knew I wasn't from town, and be welcomed into their homes or just have a friendly conversation. Canoeing on lake Winnesboro and chatting with the regulars at the store on the water there, etc.
- vogt 11y ago
  The countryside is a big part of it. Like a lot of Texas, large plots of land can be had for cheap. I had a friend I would spend time with who had 20 acres with farm animals and pets, and we'd ride around his property on ATVs traversing creeks and the like. I found it beautiful and calming. There's also lots of big lakes for fishing and boating which is a pastime of mine. Folks in the grocery store would recognize that I was an outside and approach me, introduce themselves, welcome me to their homes. There may be many a technological rube out there, but a lot of nice people outside of that

MichaelGG 11y ago

This is the problem with juries in general. No one understands basic probability or how to treat evidence. It might be more apparent in technical cases, but it's just as much a miscarriage of justice in most other cases, too.

AndrewKemendo 11y ago

the folks that are participating are total block heads that don't understand even the most elementary explanations given. You could expand that to describe the entirety of the modern electorate and you would have your answer for most of the ills of society.