4 ms·

I just installed a $79 OEM Windows 7 to an Intel NUC[1], and I have some questions about upgrading. 1. Why upgrade? Windows 7 seems like a good, stable OS tha

I just installed a $79 OEM Windows 7 to an Intel NUC[1], and I have some questions about upgrading. 1. Why upgrade? Windows 7 seems like a good, stable OS that stays out of my way and lets me get work done. Newer versions have these funky tiles and touch interface, neither of which I want or can even use. 2. I've heard if I let my Win 7 install "important Windows updates", one of the updates is nagware to persuade me to update to Win10. Can that be turned off? Will it violate my privacy? 3. The article says you get up to 31 days to try Win10 and still be able to roll back to your previous OS. Why only 31 days? Why not 60? Why not 10,000? Does some irrevocable change occur to the hard disk after 31 days that renders it incapable of supporting Windows 7? 4. Will it cost money to update to 10 after next year? I'm not necessarily opposed to paying for an upgrade if it's worth it -- it's a product that they spent millions of dollars developing, after all -- but I don't like feeling pressured. I'm just barely getting settled in with Win7, after all! 5. Are there any reasons to stay away from 10? I've heard the anti-privacy scare stories. Anything else? E.g. NSA back doors, or removed support for interacting with Linux, or some such? [1] (Originally I bought the NUC to be a quiet, compact Linux server/workstation, but unfortunately the i5 model can't seem to run any of the Linux distros I threw at it, whereas Windows installed flawlessly. My main desktop has become a Mac Mini, actually :) [EDIT asterisks don't work :(]

pixl97 11y ago
1. If you have a decent SSD in it, W10 may be faster. It seems to run very well on SSDs. 4. Yes, for 1 year the upgrade is free. After that point you have to pay for the upgrade, just like to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8 you had to pay for an upgrade license. 5. Other than Microsoft's weird ideas on how they will push out updates that may affect your privacy it seems to work well enough in the industries I've tested it in. If you have any older 'expensive' software you may want to verify that it is compatible before migrating.
abalos 11y ago
1. Windows 10 does offer a lot of performance improvements. Even if you don't like the new interface, under the hood it's much faster. Even Windows 8 was a lot faster. 2. I think there is an option to ignore individual updates. You could probably utilize that to get that to go away. 3. Windows 10 literally saves a copy of your whole system running Windows 7 on the hard disk. That is deleted after 31 days. 4. They claim that it will begin to cost money to upgrade starting next year. Whether or not that becomes reality could go either way. My guess is that yes, it will cost money just like a new Windows 10 build costs money now. 5. You can turn off a good portion of the privacy-invading settings, but it's still fairly invasive. Microsoft as a company has actually been ramping up their support for other platforms which is kind of cool. I haven't heard about any specific back doors in the Windows OS itself, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. The OS is closed source, so it's really anyone's guess.
- acqq 11y ago
  > 2. I think there is an option to ignore individual updates. You could probably utilize that to get that to go away. And then they push it again: http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/you-need-to-stop-kb-3035583-from-installing-again/ http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/you-need-to-stop-k... "Updates that have been hidden can appear again if a new version of the same update is released. That’s the case with KB 3035583; not only has it received an update (thus unhiding it), it’s status as an ‘Optional’ update has been changed to ‘Important’." This announcement today seems like they'll do it again, even stronger, with revenge. "Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a “Recommended Update”. Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device" Windows 10 strikes back. > 3. Windows 10 literally saves a copy of your whole system running Windows 7 on the hard disk And if you really try downgrade, it doesn't work: https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/80e4f83d-1529-4405-b8e3-d1d636f8b71c/task-scheduler-is-broken-after-windows-10-downgrade?forum=win10itprogeneral https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/80e4f83d-1... "Task scheduler is broken after windows 10 downgrade"
  - abalos 11y ago
    Good to know about both of those. It's fairly ironic that it uses up a significant portion of disk space for a "safe" copy of the original OS that doesn't actually work..
  - scholia 11y ago
    > And if you really try downgrade, it doesn't work I have actually done it, so I can guarantee that it has worked correctly at least once ;-) Many others have had the same experience, as Google will show....
- mintplant 11y ago
  > 1. Windows 10 does offer a lot of performance improvements. Even if you don't like the new interface, under the hood it's much faster. Even Windows 8 was a lot faster. YMMV. For me, Win10 totally destabilized a netbook that was previously running smoothly on Win7. And for some reason, the backlight control worked under 7 but not 10, locking the screen at a battery-draining 100% brightness. Wasted an hour or two on the phone with Microsoft just to learn that they have no idea of the cause or solution, despite web searches turning up plenty of reports of this issue. At least the revert function worked. edit: Uh, yikes, apparently even that's a bit broken. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10477988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10477988
J_Darnley 11y ago
2 - Yes, you can uninstall the "update" that created the "Get Windows 10" harassing program gwx.exe. Look for the 3035583 update https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583
toxican 11y ago
In regards to your first question, Win 7 _is_ pretty great. Windows 8 is more the OS with the funky tiles and touch interface and 10 is the answer to those complaints. It has some of that still, but it's a nice hybrid of the features we saw in 7 and the features of 8. For me at least, 10 fixed all of the problems I had with 8. For the 31 days thing, I strongly suspect it's mostly just a marketing thing. "Try the newest Windows out for 31 days, risk free!". I could see it being an issue of storage on tablet devices with minimal storage or laptop/desktops with similar issues. I've since wiped out my Win10 machine (by accident...oops) and went back to 8, since that's what I had a license and disc for. Not sure if I'll go back to 10. The privacy issues concern me greatly.
- ilek 11y ago
  Re: the privacy, didn't they put these in 7/8 anyway? I swear I saw some things about them doing that in an update. Perhaps it was just something they were thinking about? I use 10 at work, honestly it's not bad. I haven't upgraded on my home machines though...
- tdkl 11y ago
  > For the 31 days thing, I strongly suspect it's mostly just a marketing thing. Windows.old directory gets purged after 31 days, so there's no going back.
  - toxican 11y ago
    Oh I know, I meant that them placing the limitation for 31 days is primarily a marketing thing.
bargl 11y ago
1) I personally really enjoy the UI of windows 10. I have windows 7 at work. I had a windows 8 machine for a year or so. But Windows 10 is the best of both 7 and 8 to me. The touch interface is good. The shortcuts are great, and they have re-introduced a start like menu. 3) OK I'll guess at this one. Space. If they are retaining a bunch of information it may take up a significant amount of space they can free by getting rid of it. But I don't know for sure. It might just be that 31 days is a standard tech return policy period and they can. 2/4) I think you can turn the notifications off. And if you are going to learn a new OS it makes sense to learn the one that you are going to be moving to no the one you are going to be moving from. http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/disabling-windows-10-upgrade-notification http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/disabling-windows-10-upgr... 5) This is opinion and people disliking the new direction of Microsoft. You get new features (Like Cortana) but it costs you in privacy. How much is that cost? Only Microsoft really knows... But you can always set up a dual boot or something to address some of those issues. MANY Linux distros are almost easier to get used to than Windows 10 (from windows 7). And win 10 even stole some features from them. <soapbox> I just want to let everyone know that anything you post here (on the internet) is already being gobbled up by the NSA, just about anything you do on your phone, and now anything you do on your pc (presumably). Lets focus on changing the law, because Linux is not a viable solution for 99% (that stat is made up) of people, which means that your parents, friends, and everyone else aren't protected even if you are. While changing the law is ridiculously hard, if you are concerned about privacy mention it to friends and family so they know and evangelize. Microsoft is no more evil than anyone else. I presonally think that at their core they don't want to give this data to the NSA, they want it to figure out how users are using the OS (what every dev wants). So they've tooled it to the Nth degree and it's only a privacy issue because they aren't clear what they collect (but they let you turn it off) and we don't trust them to let us turn it off. </soapbox>
- shostack 11y ago
  Given that the "telemetry" update was backported to Windows 7, can it be assumed that Win7 now has a similar level of tracking as Win10?
  - 11y ago
_xander 11y ago
Q2: You can. Hiding the update that contains the nagware worked for me[1]. You should allow windows to install other updates (fixing bugs, security risks, ect.). Q3: The 31 day deadline is to free-up space once a user has settled down with Win10. Advanced users can work around this [2]. I can’t answer all these questions unfortunately! Q1 and Q5 are fairly subjective - I think it's up to you to form your own opinion on those. [1] http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-windows-10-icon-shown-in-the-notification-tray/ http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-w... [2] http://www.thewindowsclub.com/rollback-windows-10-after-30-days http://www.thewindowsclub.com/rollback-windows-10-after-30-d...
tdkl 11y ago
1. Don't. You're happy with the system as it is. Now, what to do regarding Windows 10 ? If you're a fairly computer savvy person, for home usage, I'll say disable the updates, get an AV and a firewall and keep a weekly backup. Updates loose any credibility if the vendor issuing them cannot be trusted and MS has shown with those tactics what the endgame is. Checking every update what it does and if it's safe to apply to the system takes more time and energy then keeping a weekly backup of the system and basic security. Now why should someone play hide and seek with MS and their dark patterns instead of using the system as is ? I'd say that this is a pretty sad state of OS updates we're in regarding Windows, if not software generally.
- mkup 11y ago
  You have a very good point about disabling updates. Everyone here seems to think that OS updates are vital-important, but they are not. If you are running latest browser, instant messenger and personal firewall, you are unlikely to catch malware online regardless of OS patches installed. So, Windows 10 actually does not complete against Linux or PC-BSD, it completes against previous versions of Windows without telemetry crap, i.e. Windows 7 and Vista. Exactly these operating systems with disabled updates will dominate for the next 20 years, not Linux or BSD. Btw, this approach (disabling updates) also solves all well known problems with long time reboots, metered internet connections, tray nags about Windows 10, insufficient disk space to save old OS etc.
  - dynomight 11y ago
    I got by using xp on a quite old machine from 2007 to 2015 by disabling updates and using a firewall. I think many will do similar things with windows 7. Funny you mention pc-bsd. I lost the boot sector (perhaps) on my ssd in my win7 machine so this weekend I installed pc-bsd on the 'broken' ssd. During the install I was given a warning that something in my uefi was funny. Windows just failed to install with errors and no help to be found on the install cd (retail version). So...I'm currently, as of 24 hours ago, using pc-bsd. I can't see most people going for it though. The kde desktop uninstalled itself randomly so I ended up installing gnome desktop and am using the classic version of gnome. It's going well now though. Actually really well, but I keep waiting for something bad to happen. If it behaves for a bit longer I might just switch. There's an evil side to microsoft that I wouldn't miss but I do already miss liking microsoft. I've used them for a really long time. There's a lot of good design and engineering in there.
wlesieutre 11y ago
1. New task manager!
nemof 11y ago
one big reason for some people is DirectX 12 for gaming. dx12 is windows 10 only, and is going to be hugely significant for gaming in general.
bombtrack 11y ago
What sort of problems did you run into when installing linux? I have an i5 model that runs OS X. I would think installing Ubuntu via bootable USB would more or less like installing Windows.

pixl97 11y ago

1. If you have a decent SSD in it, W10 may be faster. It seems to run very well on SSDs. 4. Yes, for 1 year the upgrade is free. After that point you have to pay for the upgrade, just like to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8 you had to pay for an upgrade license. 5. Other than Microsoft's weird ideas on how they will push out updates that may affect your privacy it seems to work well enough in the industries I've tested it in. If you have any older 'expensive' software you may want to verify that it is compatible before migrating.

abalos 11y ago

1. Windows 10 does offer a lot of performance improvements. Even if you don't like the new interface, under the hood it's much faster. Even Windows 8 was a lot faster. 2. I think there is an option to ignore individual updates. You could probably utilize that to get that to go away. 3. Windows 10 literally saves a copy of your whole system running Windows 7 on the hard disk. That is deleted after 31 days. 4. They claim that it will begin to cost money to upgrade starting next year. Whether or not that becomes reality could go either way. My guess is that yes, it will cost money just like a new Windows 10 build costs money now. 5. You can turn off a good portion of the privacy-invading settings, but it's still fairly invasive. Microsoft as a company has actually been ramping up their support for other platforms which is kind of cool. I haven't heard about any specific back doors in the Windows OS itself, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. The OS is closed source, so it's really anyone's guess.

acqq 11y ago
> 2. I think there is an option to ignore individual updates. You could probably utilize that to get that to go away. And then they push it again: http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/you-need-to-stop-kb-3035583-from-installing-again/ http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/you-need-to-stop-k... "Updates that have been hidden can appear again if a new version of the same update is released. That’s the case with KB 3035583; not only has it received an update (thus unhiding it), it’s status as an ‘Optional’ update has been changed to ‘Important’." This announcement today seems like they'll do it again, even stronger, with revenge. "Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a “Recommended Update”. Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device" Windows 10 strikes back. > 3. Windows 10 literally saves a copy of your whole system running Windows 7 on the hard disk And if you really try downgrade, it doesn't work: https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/80e4f83d-1529-4405-b8e3-d1d636f8b71c/task-scheduler-is-broken-after-windows-10-downgrade?forum=win10itprogeneral https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/80e4f83d-1... "Task scheduler is broken after windows 10 downgrade"
- abalos 11y ago
  Good to know about both of those. It's fairly ironic that it uses up a significant portion of disk space for a "safe" copy of the original OS that doesn't actually work..
- scholia 11y ago
  > And if you really try downgrade, it doesn't work I have actually done it, so I can guarantee that it has worked correctly at least once ;-) Many others have had the same experience, as Google will show....
mintplant 11y ago
> 1. Windows 10 does offer a lot of performance improvements. Even if you don't like the new interface, under the hood it's much faster. Even Windows 8 was a lot faster. YMMV. For me, Win10 totally destabilized a netbook that was previously running smoothly on Win7. And for some reason, the backlight control worked under 7 but not 10, locking the screen at a battery-draining 100% brightness. Wasted an hour or two on the phone with Microsoft just to learn that they have no idea of the cause or solution, despite web searches turning up plenty of reports of this issue. At least the revert function worked. edit: Uh, yikes, apparently even that's a bit broken. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10477988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10477988

J_Darnley 11y ago

2 - Yes, you can uninstall the "update" that created the "Get Windows 10" harassing program gwx.exe. Look for the 3035583 update https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583

toxican 11y ago

In regards to your first question, Win 7 _is_ pretty great. Windows 8 is more the OS with the funky tiles and touch interface and 10 is the answer to those complaints. It has some of that still, but it's a nice hybrid of the features we saw in 7 and the features of 8. For me at least, 10 fixed all of the problems I had with 8. For the 31 days thing, I strongly suspect it's mostly just a marketing thing. "Try the newest Windows out for 31 days, risk free!". I could see it being an issue of storage on tablet devices with minimal storage or laptop/desktops with similar issues. I've since wiped out my Win10 machine (by accident...oops) and went back to 8, since that's what I had a license and disc for. Not sure if I'll go back to 10. The privacy issues concern me greatly.

ilek 11y ago
Re: the privacy, didn't they put these in 7/8 anyway? I swear I saw some things about them doing that in an update. Perhaps it was just something they were thinking about? I use 10 at work, honestly it's not bad. I haven't upgraded on my home machines though...
tdkl 11y ago
> For the 31 days thing, I strongly suspect it's mostly just a marketing thing. Windows.old directory gets purged after 31 days, so there's no going back.
- toxican 11y ago
  Oh I know, I meant that them placing the limitation for 31 days is primarily a marketing thing.

bargl 11y ago

1) I personally really enjoy the UI of windows 10. I have windows 7 at work. I had a windows 8 machine for a year or so. But Windows 10 is the best of both 7 and 8 to me. The touch interface is good. The shortcuts are great, and they have re-introduced a start like menu. 3) OK I'll guess at this one. Space. If they are retaining a bunch of information it may take up a significant amount of space they can free by getting rid of it. But I don't know for sure. It might just be that 31 days is a standard tech return policy period and they can. 2/4) I think you can turn the notifications off. And if you are going to learn a new OS it makes sense to learn the one that you are going to be moving to no the one you are going to be moving from. http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/disabling-windows-10-upgrade-notification http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/disabling-windows-10-upgr... 5) This is opinion and people disliking the new direction of Microsoft. You get new features (Like Cortana) but it costs you in privacy. How much is that cost? Only Microsoft really knows... But you can always set up a dual boot or something to address some of those issues. MANY Linux distros are almost easier to get used to than Windows 10 (from windows 7). And win 10 even stole some features from them. <soapbox> I just want to let everyone know that anything you post here (on the internet) is already being gobbled up by the NSA, just about anything you do on your phone, and now anything you do on your pc (presumably). Lets focus on changing the law, because Linux is not a viable solution for 99% (that stat is made up) of people, which means that your parents, friends, and everyone else aren't protected even if you are. While changing the law is ridiculously hard, if you are concerned about privacy mention it to friends and family so they know and evangelize. Microsoft is no more evil than anyone else. I presonally think that at their core they don't want to give this data to the NSA, they want it to figure out how users are using the OS (what every dev wants). So they've tooled it to the Nth degree and it's only a privacy issue because they aren't clear what they collect (but they let you turn it off) and we don't trust them to let us turn it off. </soapbox>

shostack 11y ago
Given that the "telemetry" update was backported to Windows 7, can it be assumed that Win7 now has a similar level of tracking as Win10?
- 11y ago

_xander 11y ago

Q2: You can. Hiding the update that contains the nagware worked for me[1]. You should allow windows to install other updates (fixing bugs, security risks, ect.). Q3: The 31 day deadline is to free-up space once a user has settled down with Win10. Advanced users can work around this [2]. I can’t answer all these questions unfortunately! Q1 and Q5 are fairly subjective - I think it's up to you to form your own opinion on those. [1] http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-windows-10-icon-shown-in-the-notification-tray/ http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-w... [2] http://www.thewindowsclub.com/rollback-windows-10-after-30-days http://www.thewindowsclub.com/rollback-windows-10-after-30-d...

tdkl 11y ago

1. Don't. You're happy with the system as it is. Now, what to do regarding Windows 10 ? If you're a fairly computer savvy person, for home usage, I'll say disable the updates, get an AV and a firewall and keep a weekly backup. Updates loose any credibility if the vendor issuing them cannot be trusted and MS has shown with those tactics what the endgame is. Checking every update what it does and if it's safe to apply to the system takes more time and energy then keeping a weekly backup of the system and basic security. Now why should someone play hide and seek with MS and their dark patterns instead of using the system as is ? I'd say that this is a pretty sad state of OS updates we're in regarding Windows, if not software generally.

mkup 11y ago
You have a very good point about disabling updates. Everyone here seems to think that OS updates are vital-important, but they are not. If you are running latest browser, instant messenger and personal firewall, you are unlikely to catch malware online regardless of OS patches installed. So, Windows 10 actually does not complete against Linux or PC-BSD, it completes against previous versions of Windows without telemetry crap, i.e. Windows 7 and Vista. Exactly these operating systems with disabled updates will dominate for the next 20 years, not Linux or BSD. Btw, this approach (disabling updates) also solves all well known problems with long time reboots, metered internet connections, tray nags about Windows 10, insufficient disk space to save old OS etc.
- dynomight 11y ago
  I got by using xp on a quite old machine from 2007 to 2015 by disabling updates and using a firewall. I think many will do similar things with windows 7. Funny you mention pc-bsd. I lost the boot sector (perhaps) on my ssd in my win7 machine so this weekend I installed pc-bsd on the 'broken' ssd. During the install I was given a warning that something in my uefi was funny. Windows just failed to install with errors and no help to be found on the install cd (retail version). So...I'm currently, as of 24 hours ago, using pc-bsd. I can't see most people going for it though. The kde desktop uninstalled itself randomly so I ended up installing gnome desktop and am using the classic version of gnome. It's going well now though. Actually really well, but I keep waiting for something bad to happen. If it behaves for a bit longer I might just switch. There's an evil side to microsoft that I wouldn't miss but I do already miss liking microsoft. I've used them for a really long time. There's a lot of good design and engineering in there.

wlesieutre 11y ago

1. New task manager!

nemof 11y ago

one big reason for some people is DirectX 12 for gaming. dx12 is windows 10 only, and is going to be hugely significant for gaming in general.

bombtrack 11y ago

What sort of problems did you run into when installing linux? I have an i5 model that runs OS X. I would think installing Ubuntu via bootable USB would more or less like installing Windows.