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NASA Adds to Evidence of Mysterious Ancient Earthworks
- a2tech 11y agoThe 'swastika' one is interesting to me-with the curved entranceways they look kind of like funnels. Could it have been used as a place to herd and trap animals? For example people have used naturally occurring box canyons to trap horses-could the natives of this region, lacking natural canyons, been doing the same thing?
- maze-le 11y agoIf the dating is correct (~6000 BCE), this would still be 2000 years before the earliest estimations of the domestication of horses.
- Turing_Machine 11y agoPeople were eating horses long before they domesticated them. :-)
- brazzledazzle 11y agoI think horses were just an example. Hominids were trapping prey animals and enemies using things like canyons.
- wil421 11y ago>Could it have been used as a place to herd and trap animals? Horses was just one of the examples. I dont think they used box canyons to trap animals only meant for domestication.
- stevenkovar 11y agoMy first thought was that it would be a simple way to position key items while structuring a village. Perhaps points for sentries to watch over the village, for traders/shops to operate, etc. They seemed to be spaced within shouting distance of one another.
- Gravityloss 11y agoA great idea, you could look at structures that are in use today to herd reindeer. http://www.rky.fi/read/asp/hae_kuva.aspx?id=111600&ttyyppi=jpg&kunta_id=148 http://www.rky.fi/read/asp/hae_kuva.aspx?id=111600&ttyyppi=j... If you do it in the same place for a thousand years, what kind of mounds will form?
- rdtsc 11y agoThis is of course a classic "swastika as a building" pattern controversy: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/09/28/391393/--Accidental-Giant-Navy-Swastika-Building-Was-No-Accident# http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/09/28/391393/--Accidental... It comes along controversy, conspiracy theories, and insinuations of Nazi infiltrations into the US govt., a fun read altogether.
- tcdent 11y agoMost people today associate it with Nazi's, but it's much older than that.
- jschwartzi 11y agoIt was originally a symbol of good fortune.
- donarb 11y agoIt still is, to those the symbol's meaning was stolen from.
- rdtsc 11y agoI was just pointing out it was an interesting controversy. It ranged from "it is an efficient building design", to happened by accident, to deliberate agenda due to some conspiracy theory.
- greggman 11y agoDefine "most". All of India, All of China, All of Japan, and every related country does not associate that symbol with Nazis. They are on every map as they mark hospitals in those countries.
- mikeash 11y agoI was in China recently and went into a temple with several Buddhas with swastikas on them. My Chinese wife turned to me and said, in a confused way, "isn't that the Nazi symbol?" I have no idea how representative that is, of course.
- duaneb 11y agoAlternatively I wonder if they may be some sort of primitive surveying technique. EDIT: primitive meaning different and not western tech, it's out of my league.
- Alex3917 11y agoGiven that the history channel believes the stone walls in New England could only have been built by aliens, I can't wait to see what they come up with for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6tpLjyx-_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6tpLjyx-_g
- dogma1138 11y agoWell it's the History channel which defaults to 3 things, Aliens, Nazi's and Rednecks. Sadly NG isn't that far behind either, tho i have to admit that the random episode of Rocket City Rednecks I watched at the gym was amusing.
- smacktoward 11y agoIf the universe truly is infinite, that means it's a statistical certainty that somewhere out there is the trifecta: Redneck Alien Nazis. The History Channel should team up with SpaceX and start looking for them. Imagine the ratings!
- grillvogel 11y agonot that I want to be the guy defending ancient aliens(just kidding i kindof do), but lots of accepted history and archaeology is based on just as many assumptions and leaps of faith as you'd find on that show, they just aren't as patently absurd at face value.
- doktrin 11y ago> they just aren't as patently absurd at face value Isn't that the entire point? It's not like all assumptions are equivalent.
- onestone 11y agoGoogle Maps link to one of the figures: https://goo.gl/maps/sFgt17ZiYhF2 https://goo.gl/maps/sFgt17ZiYhF2
- samstave 11y agoI'm really interested in the fact it is in Kazakstan -- watch "the botany of desire" where it talks about how modern humans came really from that region as well as some significant agricultural discoveries... Apples are originally from there IIRC... Great doc regardless.
- ohitsdom 11y agoIt's really surprising to me that these are big enough to be seen from space but are only now just getting recognition. Looking forward to hearing about what we can discover from these earthworks!
- nucleardog 11y ago"Big enough to see from space" is pretty meaningless when we have cameras up there that can zoom in and pick out an ant on a sidewalk.
- emcrazyone 11y agoThe Discovery (or History) channel, I forget which, has a facinating series of shows on Ancient Aliens. This story reminds me of a story in the above mentioned series about a group of researches who appeared to have been killed by some force in Siberia. Upon further investigation, there appears to be some domes buried in the ground in Siberia. The domes are theorized to have killed the researchers. In the show, they said an autoposy was done and some of the researchers were killed from the inside out. In other words, there was no visible trauma to their skin but their rib cage bones had been shattered. http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread544351/pg1 http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread544351/pg1 https://soipost.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/what-is-the-purpose-and-who-built-these-mysterious-structures-in-siberia/ https://soipost.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/what-is-the-purpose... http://www.utaot.com/2013/02/27/scientists-prove-ancient-alien-cauldrons-in-siberia-are-real/ http://www.utaot.com/2013/02/27/scientists-prove-ancient-ali... I don't get much of an opportunity to talk about these things at work or within my family. They think I'm nuts. But this really fascinates me too.
- wobbleblob 11y agoWhy is it so difficult to imagine neolithic cultures built these things? The pyramids were designed without computers and built with stone tools, why couldn't people ancient have made earthworks without the help of alien technology? All it takes is some manpower and lots of time.
- kevin_thibedeau 11y ago> The pyramids were designed without computers Technically, they were designed by human computers.
- Nadya 11y agoAliens of the gaps. Unfortunately, the modern History channel gets people into that line of thinking. "Not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens."
- mhurron 11y ago> Why is it so difficult to imagine neolithic cultures built these things In fact it's incredibly insulting to everyone involved, and basically everyone who has ever lived, that without the use of modern tools they couldn't possibly do anything of note. 'Ancient Aliens' is a big fuck you to those who actually did the work.
- yodon 11y agoThe large square with the diagonals is an interesting puzzle mathematically (or culturally?). The square is 17 hills on a side (or 16 units of distance). The diagonals are 11 hills from corner to center (or 10 units of distance) or 21 hills corner to corner (20 units of distance). You wouldn't build something this big and this regular without planning it, so those numbers made sense to someone at the time.
- fsiefken 11y agoyes, i immediately counted the hills too. The number 17 or 16 doesn't seem like a coincidence. According to the wikipedia list of number 17 has some intruiging properties. If the number 16 wasn't one of the factors involved in the design perhaps one of the mathematical or religious properties of the number 17 was (the 7th prime) or "For example, the patriarch Jacob lived 17 years after his son Joseph went missing and presumed dead, and lived 17 years after their reunion in Egypt, and the lifespans of Abraham aged 175, Isaac aged 180, and Jacob aged 147 are not a coincidence. "(The sum of the factors in all three cases is 17; of what possible significance this is, I have no idea.)" Leon Kass, The beginning of wisdom: reading Genesis,(Simon and Schuster, 2003), ISBN 978-0-7432-4299-8, p. 413 n. 10 (citing Genesis 47:28), quote from p. 629 n. 18
- MrQuincle 11y agoThe sum of the factors in the prime factorization of 180 is 15: 2+2+3+3+5=15. 2x2x3x3x5=180. Pretty useless comment from my side, but I couldn't resist. :-)
- dschiptsov 11y ago8000 years old is already nonsense.
- cfontes 11y agoWhy?
- dschiptsov 11y agoBecause claims of having some human settlements must be supported by other factors to sustain assumed population. Without sustainable agriculture, domestication of anals, established trade routes, developed tools and what we would call 'best practices' no 'ancient settlement', leave alone 'ancient civilization' is possible. It must be a very favorable place. This logic applies to debunk nonsensical claims about inventd by pundits Tibetan kingdoms, it applies here too.
- sophacles 11y agoThere have been a lot of cool discoveries in the last few years, particularly since google earth became available but generally with the easy availability of satellite imagery. It's even got a name now - satellite archaeology. From what I've read - at the high end it includes some cool processing using non-visible wavelengths (e.g. infrared). But my understanding is that so far, it is still a lot of people looking at pictures and saying "that looks like people did it!". Does anyone know of any efforts to automate via image/pattern recognition - something like (off the top of my head) Comparing features that meet a certain regularity threshold to maps of "known things" and flagging places that might be significant and unknown? Seems like a fun project to devote some time/effort to.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- hluska 11y agoI remember reading an article in Archaeology magazine. Some researchers from some school automated the search for settlements. I can't remember if they were successful or not. Edit #1 - That was the most useless comment that I've ever either written or read, so I did some digging. Here's the article that I remember: http://archive.archaeology.org/1207/features/aster_satellite_remote_sensing_bronze_age_syria.html http://archive.archaeology.org/1207/features/aster_satellite... Jason Ur (one of the researchers) has a list of pubs available. Looks like a few of these would be of value to you: http://scholar.harvard.edu/jasonur/node/93931 http://scholar.harvard.edu/jasonur/node/93931
- sophacles 11y agoCool, thanks for the links!
- toyg 11y ago"Jason Ur" is such a cool name for an archeologist, it wouldn't be out of place in a movie or a book about immortals hiding among humans. Edit: Wikipedia for the uninitiated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur
- clueless123 11y agoI've seen very similar ground constructs on the valley of Palpa (next to the Nazca lines in Peru ) The most popular theory is that they were used as ceremonial places.
- wrongc0ntinent 11y agoI wish they'd list the coordinates. I think I found some formations, searching for the "swastika" near Urpek village. In the upper left corner there is a bunch of green dots similar in size to the ones in the square, etc. They look like gardens. https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0857785,65.2126098,636m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0857785,65.2126098,636m/data...
- wrongc0ntinent 11y ago(edit window passed) These seem unusual because of the assumption that these were exclusively nomad lands. Take that away and agriculture/irrigation/livestock of some kind seems a lot more likely and a lot less mysterious. There is no information about contemporary techniques in the area either. While I'm curious about these, there are some clear red flags of cultural superimposition in the original research.
- alisson 11y agoThis stone circles are pretty interesting to me: https://www.google.com/maps/place/25%C2%B038'08.5%22S+30%C2%B021'18.8%22E/@-25.6364635,30.3544043,592m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0 https://www.google.com/maps/place/25%C2%B038'08.5%22S+30%C2%... If you fly around this coordinates you can also find a lot of them: 25 55′ 53.28″S, 30 16′ 13.13″E 25 47′ 33.45″S, 30 40′ 38.76″E 25 38′ 07.82″S, 30 21′ 18.79″E 25 39′ 22.42″S, 30 17′ 03.25″E
- michaelsbradley 11y agoCompare with the petroglyphs and geoglyphs discussed in Dr. Anthony Peratt's 2003 paper, Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity: http://plasmauniverse.info/downloadsCosmo/PerattTPSv31-2003clr.pdf http://plasmauniverse.info/downloadsCosmo/PerattTPSv31-2003c... The timeframe (8,000 years old) mentioned in the article generally fits with the timeframes given in Peratt's paper. So perhaps these earthworks are further evidence of ancient peoples recording (in some sense) a stupendous "light show" that defied explanation and ordinary human experience. Additional publications on the same theory, by Peratt and other researchers: http://plasmauniverse.info/NearEarth.html http://plasmauniverse.info/NearEarth.html
- cpplinuxdude 11y agoI got lost a the word "space-age". I don't mean to be the pedantic one. Sorry. But why would an outlet like the NYTimes use a word that means 1976 when they don't mean it. Meh. returns to article
- lobster_johnson 11y agoBecause it's a valid and appropriate term? Here's Oxford Dictionary: space-age, adj. very modern; technologically advanced: a space-age control room.
- fit2rule 11y agoAh, if only Szukalski were alive to enjoy this.
- BasDirks 11y ago"Spotted on Google Earth in 2007 by a Kazakh economist and archaeology enthusiast, Dmitriy Dey, the so-called Steppe Geoglyphs remain deeply puzzling and largely unknown to the outside world." Makes me wonder what else exists that we know nothing of. Specifically I wonder what can be found in the Amazone region, the Sahara (well all of Africa really), and now uninhabited parts of Russia. PS. Can't we get some archeological Kickstarter (platform) going?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- heatherb 11y agoAs most of the other comments here, I do believe these are footprints from villages and structures that have worn away with time. The ones with circles were probably areas where huts and other dwelling units were placed.
- fsiefken 11y agoHi Heather, which 'most of the other comments' are you referring to? If you are talking about the geoglyphs only the top comment speculates they could have been remains trappings for animals. The article itself talks about a neolithic settlement nearby which is not part of the geoglyph. What makes you think they were huts and dwelling units there? If that were the case one would presume there would be remains of that. In the article there is link to how the geoglyphs were made intentionally - so they didn't seem to have been be villages or structures http://e-history.kz/en/contents/view/1562 http://e-history.kz/en/contents/view/1562
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- maaku 11y agoIs this the discovery of the Indo-European homeland at long last?
- aaron695 11y agoTL;DR People in the old days got bored as fuck and made cool shit. Sure we often put it down to religion, but the reality is we can chose to do what ever we want to worship our gods and some people chose to do stuff that's interesting and cool. People are people, who doesn't want to make cool big things that last a long time. I like it.
- cesarmound 11y agoThose amazed by this discovery may find these other mounds also interesting: http://www.thequantummachine.com http://www.thequantummachine.com