4 ms·

Sad. I'm surprised the first subject, a trained lawyer, didn't simply deny to answer the question concerning his camera. My standard response to any perceived

Sad. I'm surprised the first subject, a trained lawyer, didn't simply deny to answer the question concerning his camera. My standard response to any perceived intimidation by police these days is: "I'm sorry Mr./Mrs/Sargent/Lt X, but I don't talk to police on material matters without counsel present."

dhyasama 17y ago
It's kind of crazy you have a standard response. How many times have you used it?
- bonsaitree 17y ago
  Nah. It's actually no biggie. I've only had to use it a few times. It came as advice from my lawyer after having been involved peripherally a few years ago, as a witness, in one IAD case. I grew up around law enforcement (best friend's father was FBI, and current friends in Secret Service etc.). Also, in Fed-land (e.g. Northern Virginia) where nearly everyone's family is in some form of government/legal service, I suspect the public/police interactions are atypical. As a result, talking to cops in both personal and professional contexts isn't a novel experience. IMO, Virginia also has professional cop culture. I always recommend folks view this lecture given by Virginia's Regent Law School ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik ).
  - scott_s 17y ago
    I was going to link that video. Everyone should watch it.
bestes 17y ago
And how does it work?
- kjhgbhnm 17y ago
  They tazer you and then charge you with assaulting a police officer. If you have below the recommended skin albedo they also charge you possession of drugs.
- bonsaitree 17y ago
  IME, extremely well, but see my previous comment on the general professionalism of Virginia police. I've had no personal experience with potentially litigious/confrontational law enforcement encounters outside of VA. By immediately asserting your rights, the officer in question knows that they are not dealing with a person of "legal ignorance". As with communication in all social interactions, an assertive (but not aggressive) carriage, posture, positive eye contact, and tone helps a great deal. Keep in mind that, in most contexts, when I see the triplet of a badge, an open-carry gun (the gun is key), and a police uniform, my default assumption is that of a PERSON who's sworn an oath and, consciously or unconsciously, respects SOME sort of legal authority given their avocation (though it may not necessarily be true). FWIW, if you have any doubt, it's worth asking CLEARLY if the presumed officer in question has "sworn arrest powers in <insert municipality>". Police are allowed to lie, but they're not legally allowed to "assert police powers" such as arrest and/or detainment unless they have truly have them. In most U.S. state codes, there's a clear delineation between what constitutes a "lawful" and an "unlawful order" by law enforcement. Asserting police powers without being a sworn law enforcement officer is also usually a felony. At worst, you may be severely inconvenienced for an "officer's safety" by being handcuffed and/or temporarily detained on-site, but you've preserved all of your rights under the law. Fighting temporary detainment is a "sticky wicket" and generally ill-advised unless you genuinely feel that your life or the lives of your family are at immediate risk (e.g. driving your pregnant wife to the hospital, etc.).

dhyasama 17y ago

It's kind of crazy you have a standard response. How many times have you used it?

bonsaitree 17y ago
Nah. It's actually no biggie. I've only had to use it a few times. It came as advice from my lawyer after having been involved peripherally a few years ago, as a witness, in one IAD case. I grew up around law enforcement (best friend's father was FBI, and current friends in Secret Service etc.). Also, in Fed-land (e.g. Northern Virginia) where nearly everyone's family is in some form of government/legal service, I suspect the public/police interactions are atypical. As a result, talking to cops in both personal and professional contexts isn't a novel experience. IMO, Virginia also has professional cop culture. I always recommend folks view this lecture given by Virginia's Regent Law School ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik ).
- scott_s 17y ago
  I was going to link that video. Everyone should watch it.

bestes 17y ago

And how does it work?

kjhgbhnm 17y ago
They tazer you and then charge you with assaulting a police officer. If you have below the recommended skin albedo they also charge you possession of drugs.
bonsaitree 17y ago
IME, extremely well, but see my previous comment on the general professionalism of Virginia police. I've had no personal experience with potentially litigious/confrontational law enforcement encounters outside of VA. By immediately asserting your rights, the officer in question knows that they are not dealing with a person of "legal ignorance". As with communication in all social interactions, an assertive (but not aggressive) carriage, posture, positive eye contact, and tone helps a great deal. Keep in mind that, in most contexts, when I see the triplet of a badge, an open-carry gun (the gun is key), and a police uniform, my default assumption is that of a PERSON who's sworn an oath and, consciously or unconsciously, respects SOME sort of legal authority given their avocation (though it may not necessarily be true). FWIW, if you have any doubt, it's worth asking CLEARLY if the presumed officer in question has "sworn arrest powers in <insert municipality>". Police are allowed to lie, but they're not legally allowed to "assert police powers" such as arrest and/or detainment unless they have truly have them. In most U.S. state codes, there's a clear delineation between what constitutes a "lawful" and an "unlawful order" by law enforcement. Asserting police powers without being a sworn law enforcement officer is also usually a felony. At worst, you may be severely inconvenienced for an "officer's safety" by being handcuffed and/or temporarily detained on-site, but you've preserved all of your rights under the law. Fighting temporary detainment is a "sticky wicket" and generally ill-advised unless you genuinely feel that your life or the lives of your family are at immediate risk (e.g. driving your pregnant wife to the hospital, etc.).