4 ms·

> Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, as long as they can still g

by ionised 11y ago

> Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, as long as they can still go shopping at the mall, watch football and get drunk every weekend? Exactly this. I'm British and I'm completely fucking tired of living here and watching how right-wing, xenophobic, poor-bashing and just all-round ignorant and unpleasant people are and are becoming. I feel absolutely no kinship with my countrymen, because most seem completely unwilling to think for themselves. It semms like they would rather just be told who to hate on any given day by a media known for its lies, and by politicians known for their utter greed and contempt for the people. I'm currently looking into moving away and possibly even renouncing my citizenship in future. The problem is, where to move to?

mike_hearn 11y ago
I think you're wearing rose tinted glasses. You say "are becoming" but do you have real evidence that the past was a utopia of rationality where propaganda fell on deaf ears, nobody was ever scared of any threats and everyone loved deeply religious immigrants? Because the UK I know from my history readings has things like the cold war, the Falklands war, massive tribal struggles between political left and right, and if you go back to Orwell's time you find he found it tough to get published because the idea that Stalin was a bad guy was deemed terribly gauche. The UK has not had any truly evil governments for a very long time (perhaps, if we judge them by the standards of their day, the answer might be that it's never had an unusually evil government). It's not like Germany where they're super sensitive about privacy and democracy thanks to their experiences the Nazis and then the communists. So not very surprisingly, British people tend to be very trusting of their governments as they never saw how bad things can really get. See: popular support for Cameron executing a British citizen by drone strike, merely because he was in Syria and GCHQ promised cross-our-hearts-and-hope-to-die that he was a Bad Guy™. This lack of experience doesn't excuse things, mind you .... just explain them. British people (like me) should look to the experiences of other countries to learn from their mistakes and should make sure to avoid them. But modern UK is not significantly worse than even the recent past where it did things like run a global empire, persecuted gay people, had no minimum wage, etc. And Cameron, for all his faults, has actually been a pretty centrist PM (for a Tory). Certainly more than his backbenches would like.
- ionised 11y ago
  All I can say is, I really, really dislike this country and the political system that operates it. My personal and political beliefs seem to be completely at odds with most of the British public and I feel like I would be crazy to stay. I mean, we have a monarch and an unelected upper house of parliament. What the hell am I doing here? My identity as a British person means very little to me. I was born on this patch of dirt, someone stamped 'British person' on my arse and here I am.
  - mike_hearn 11y ago
    If you mean you're significantly more left wing than many people, well you'll see that split everywhere in the democratic world, even in Scotland. Yes, there's a monarch. Who does diddly squat other than putting on a dog and pony show for visiting dignitaries - which happens to be useful for trade purposes (see recent visit of the Chinese president) - giving people entertainment and attracting tourists. So the monarchy is tolerated. That tolerance would vaporise if say Charles came to the throne and started trying to fuck with government policies. You'd pretty quickly see the monarchy put in a purely ceremonial role and the country transition to a kind of pseudo-republic which would be a republic in all but name, in which people still pretend to be loyal to the King even though he has no power at all. So I wouldn't worry about that. The house of lords has such limited power I wouldn't worry about that either: it can slow legislation down but can't stop it due to the Parliament Act. Like the monarchy, it's a tolerated holdover from earlier times that doesn't really impact much of anything. If these are the worst things about Britain you can think of, I'd suggest you have a case of grass-is-always-greener syndrome (btw, I'm British and I live in Switzerland ... but not because I thought the UK sucked so bad I had to get out).
    - ionised 11y ago
      They are not even close to the worst things I can think of about Britain, they are just the most visible to people. The two I mentioned I mostly symbolic, true but that's even more reason to get rid of them. Screw the financial benefit. They are representative of obscene wealth, privilige and elitism and have no place in a democratic society, symbolic or not.

by ionised 11y ago

mike_hearn 11y ago

I think you're wearing rose tinted glasses. You say "are becoming" but do you have real evidence that the past was a utopia of rationality where propaganda fell on deaf ears, nobody was ever scared of any threats and everyone loved deeply religious immigrants? Because the UK I know from my history readings has things like the cold war, the Falklands war, massive tribal struggles between political left and right, and if you go back to Orwell's time you find he found it tough to get published because the idea that Stalin was a bad guy was deemed terribly gauche. The UK has not had any truly evil governments for a very long time (perhaps, if we judge them by the standards of their day, the answer might be that it's never had an unusually evil government). It's not like Germany where they're super sensitive about privacy and democracy thanks to their experiences the Nazis and then the communists. So not very surprisingly, British people tend to be very trusting of their governments as they never saw how bad things can really get. See: popular support for Cameron executing a British citizen by drone strike, merely because he was in Syria and GCHQ promised cross-our-hearts-and-hope-to-die that he was a Bad Guy™. This lack of experience doesn't excuse things, mind you .... just explain them. British people (like me) should look to the experiences of other countries to learn from their mistakes and should make sure to avoid them. But modern UK is not significantly worse than even the recent past where it did things like run a global empire, persecuted gay people, had no minimum wage, etc. And Cameron, for all his faults, has actually been a pretty centrist PM (for a Tory). Certainly more than his backbenches would like.

ionised 11y ago
All I can say is, I really, really dislike this country and the political system that operates it. My personal and political beliefs seem to be completely at odds with most of the British public and I feel like I would be crazy to stay. I mean, we have a monarch and an unelected upper house of parliament. What the hell am I doing here? My identity as a British person means very little to me. I was born on this patch of dirt, someone stamped 'British person' on my arse and here I am.
- mike_hearn 11y ago
  If you mean you're significantly more left wing than many people, well you'll see that split everywhere in the democratic world, even in Scotland. Yes, there's a monarch. Who does diddly squat other than putting on a dog and pony show for visiting dignitaries - which happens to be useful for trade purposes (see recent visit of the Chinese president) - giving people entertainment and attracting tourists. So the monarchy is tolerated. That tolerance would vaporise if say Charles came to the throne and started trying to fuck with government policies. You'd pretty quickly see the monarchy put in a purely ceremonial role and the country transition to a kind of pseudo-republic which would be a republic in all but name, in which people still pretend to be loyal to the King even though he has no power at all. So I wouldn't worry about that. The house of lords has such limited power I wouldn't worry about that either: it can slow legislation down but can't stop it due to the Parliament Act. Like the monarchy, it's a tolerated holdover from earlier times that doesn't really impact much of anything. If these are the worst things about Britain you can think of, I'd suggest you have a case of grass-is-always-greener syndrome (btw, I'm British and I live in Switzerland ... but not because I thought the UK sucked so bad I had to get out).
  - ionised 11y ago
    They are not even close to the worst things I can think of about Britain, they are just the most visible to people. The two I mentioned I mostly symbolic, true but that's even more reason to get rid of them. Screw the financial benefit. They are representative of obscene wealth, privilige and elitism and have no place in a democratic society, symbolic or not.