5 ms·

Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, as long as they can still go

by ck2 11y ago

Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, as long as they can still go shopping at the mall, watch football and get drunk every weekend? So the pattern is basically, pass insane laws because "terrorist" then use the incredibly broad and overreaching laws beyond abuse for anything they want to do. Exactly the pattern law enforcement does with every single tool they are given, physical or virtual.

dublinclontarf 11y ago
Am in the UK, no one is worried about this. FYI we don't have the freedom of speech guarantees that the US does, and this doesn't really bother people. TLDR; storm in a teacup.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  Are people really ok with jail time for a drunken tweet from the pub?
maaarghk 11y ago
The second one. It's very depressing. Particularly as I voted to leave the UK last year. The democracy is a smoke screen. The government and the establishment are morally bankrupt. Journalists openly write/boast about colluding with politicians to advance certain agendas. Honestly I just find the fact that the country voted these people in a complete embarrassment.
ionised 11y ago
> Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, as long as they can still go shopping at the mall, watch football and get drunk every weekend? Exactly this. I'm British and I'm completely fucking tired of living here and watching how right-wing, xenophobic, poor-bashing and just all-round ignorant and unpleasant people are and are becoming. I feel absolutely no kinship with my countrymen, because most seem completely unwilling to think for themselves. It semms like they would rather just be told who to hate on any given day by a media known for its lies, and by politicians known for their utter greed and contempt for the people. I'm currently looking into moving away and possibly even renouncing my citizenship in future. The problem is, where to move to?
- mike_hearn 11y ago
  I think you're wearing rose tinted glasses. You say "are becoming" but do you have real evidence that the past was a utopia of rationality where propaganda fell on deaf ears, nobody was ever scared of any threats and everyone loved deeply religious immigrants? Because the UK I know from my history readings has things like the cold war, the Falklands war, massive tribal struggles between political left and right, and if you go back to Orwell's time you find he found it tough to get published because the idea that Stalin was a bad guy was deemed terribly gauche. The UK has not had any truly evil governments for a very long time (perhaps, if we judge them by the standards of their day, the answer might be that it's never had an unusually evil government). It's not like Germany where they're super sensitive about privacy and democracy thanks to their experiences the Nazis and then the communists. So not very surprisingly, British people tend to be very trusting of their governments as they never saw how bad things can really get. See: popular support for Cameron executing a British citizen by drone strike, merely because he was in Syria and GCHQ promised cross-our-hearts-and-hope-to-die that he was a Bad Guy™. This lack of experience doesn't excuse things, mind you .... just explain them. British people (like me) should look to the experiences of other countries to learn from their mistakes and should make sure to avoid them. But modern UK is not significantly worse than even the recent past where it did things like run a global empire, persecuted gay people, had no minimum wage, etc. And Cameron, for all his faults, has actually been a pretty centrist PM (for a Tory). Certainly more than his backbenches would like.
  - ionised 11y ago
    All I can say is, I really, really dislike this country and the political system that operates it. My personal and political beliefs seem to be completely at odds with most of the British public and I feel like I would be crazy to stay. I mean, we have a monarch and an unelected upper house of parliament. What the hell am I doing here? My identity as a British person means very little to me. I was born on this patch of dirt, someone stamped 'British person' on my arse and here I am.
    - mike_hearn 11y ago
dingaling 11y ago
> Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, What do you suggest we do? We can have million-person marches in London, just gives the Met Police more practice at kettling. We can write to our MPs and receive form answers. When was the last free-vote without whip in Parliament? They do as theiy are told by their masters, not by their electorate. We can vote for non-party candidates at elections and see them crushed by the parties, either in the elections or in Parliament. So what's left?

by ck2 11y ago

dublinclontarf 11y ago

Am in the UK, no one is worried about this. FYI we don't have the freedom of speech guarantees that the US does, and this doesn't really bother people. TLDR; storm in a teacup.

happyscrappy 11y ago
Are people really ok with jail time for a drunken tweet from the pub?

maaarghk 11y ago

The second one. It's very depressing. Particularly as I voted to leave the UK last year. The democracy is a smoke screen. The government and the establishment are morally bankrupt. Journalists openly write/boast about colluding with politicians to advance certain agendas. Honestly I just find the fact that the country voted these people in a complete embarrassment.

ionised 11y ago

> Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, as long as they can still go shopping at the mall, watch football and get drunk every weekend? Exactly this. I'm British and I'm completely fucking tired of living here and watching how right-wing, xenophobic, poor-bashing and just all-round ignorant and unpleasant people are and are becoming. I feel absolutely no kinship with my countrymen, because most seem completely unwilling to think for themselves. It semms like they would rather just be told who to hate on any given day by a media known for its lies, and by politicians known for their utter greed and contempt for the people. I'm currently looking into moving away and possibly even renouncing my citizenship in future. The problem is, where to move to?

mike_hearn 11y ago
I think you're wearing rose tinted glasses. You say "are becoming" but do you have real evidence that the past was a utopia of rationality where propaganda fell on deaf ears, nobody was ever scared of any threats and everyone loved deeply religious immigrants? Because the UK I know from my history readings has things like the cold war, the Falklands war, massive tribal struggles between political left and right, and if you go back to Orwell's time you find he found it tough to get published because the idea that Stalin was a bad guy was deemed terribly gauche. The UK has not had any truly evil governments for a very long time (perhaps, if we judge them by the standards of their day, the answer might be that it's never had an unusually evil government). It's not like Germany where they're super sensitive about privacy and democracy thanks to their experiences the Nazis and then the communists. So not very surprisingly, British people tend to be very trusting of their governments as they never saw how bad things can really get. See: popular support for Cameron executing a British citizen by drone strike, merely because he was in Syria and GCHQ promised cross-our-hearts-and-hope-to-die that he was a Bad Guy™. This lack of experience doesn't excuse things, mind you .... just explain them. British people (like me) should look to the experiences of other countries to learn from their mistakes and should make sure to avoid them. But modern UK is not significantly worse than even the recent past where it did things like run a global empire, persecuted gay people, had no minimum wage, etc. And Cameron, for all his faults, has actually been a pretty centrist PM (for a Tory). Certainly more than his backbenches would like.
- ionised 11y ago
  All I can say is, I really, really dislike this country and the political system that operates it. My personal and political beliefs seem to be completely at odds with most of the British public and I feel like I would be crazy to stay. I mean, we have a monarch and an unelected upper house of parliament. What the hell am I doing here? My identity as a British person means very little to me. I was born on this patch of dirt, someone stamped 'British person' on my arse and here I am.
  - mike_hearn 11y ago

dingaling 11y ago

> Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, What do you suggest we do? We can have million-person marches in London, just gives the Met Police more practice at kettling. We can write to our MPs and receive form answers. When was the last free-vote without whip in Parliament? They do as theiy are told by their masters, not by their electorate. We can vote for non-party candidates at elections and see them crushed by the parties, either in the elections or in Parliament. So what's left?