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I'm fairly certain you don't actually know anything like enough people who work for any of the security services in the UK to make this an informed opinion. Bec

I'm fairly certain you don't actually know anything like enough people who work for any of the security services in the UK to make this an informed opinion. Because you couldn't be more wrong. A populist viewpoint with no basis whatsoever in reality. Not surprising, but disappointing. For the avoidance of doubt, no, I don't support what's happened here. It's ill-judged (no pun intended) to say the least.

scrollaway 11y ago
> A populist viewpoint with no basis whatsoever in reality. What you just said serves no purpose. Can you please provide sources and alternative viewpoints people can actually discuss, rather than belittle someone for commenting on a story?
- wisty 11y ago
  I think it's wrong to just categorise law enforcement as a bunch of racists. Especially in the UK (cough Rotherham). It's also a bit strange to hear someone accusing the police of all being black and white thinkers, who like putting everyone in little boxes, enjoy using their power, and being extremely insular. You could say the same about the kind of progressives who think all police are racists. There probably is an element of truth, in that law enforcement does have black and white thinking. If someone is a suspect, they can act like it's their job to haul them in at all costs, unless breaking the rules would hurt the case. Yes, it's an adversarial legal system, but sometimes the police and prosecution can seem to lack discretion. Also, the amount of funding they have to clamp down on terrorism is quite disproportionate. There's a lot of police tracking down a tiny number of needles in a haystack, so anyone who looks remotely like a terrorist risks being treated as a suspect.
- petewailes 11y ago
  Happily. http://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/spy-career-secret-service http://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/spy-career-s... http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/3180 http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/3180 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/forget-bond-mi5-wants-cat-loving-twentysomethings-424915.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/forget-bon... For starters. They're not normal people, in that they're recruited by elitist institutions from other elitist institutions. Not dissimilar to how branches of our industry work, although the profile for who they want is somewhat different. But for the most part, in terms of personality, they're fairly normal people. There aren't any mustachioed villains sitting around wondering how best to abuse their powers. Yes, there's some who enjoy wielding the power they have, but the same is true in business, and doctors like performing surgery. Mischaracterising people like this does no service to the reader, no better than people who take controversial political figures and characture and demonise them. In the end, it just makes for a lower level of discourse and a worldview lacking in nuance. Ironically, what the poster was complaining about.
  - wfo 11y ago
    Comparing them to tech industry folks is not doing you any favors; the tech industry is EXTREMELY insular and thinks in almost lockstep. Look at the magic contentless words people use like "disruption" like a mantra to express group identity and nothing more. The tech industry clings onto weird extreme political views that are laughably absurd to almost anyone else, the extreme libertarians you see at the forefront, the anti-education people, the people who want to remove all patents and IP. Coming here is like entering a weird extremist alternate-reality echo chamber on the weirdest issues the tech industry seems to have a hard-on for. Poll us on any issue relating to technology or politics and you will find we are so radically different from the general population. And we're (almost) all white, middle-upper class Indian or East Asian men. If the intelligence community is anything like that I'm much more afraid than before I read your post. And the fact that you start out by saying they are cherry-picked from elite institutions and then you go on to say they are normal -- the first notion completely contradicts the second. Elite institutions often come with narcissism, a notion that you know better than the rest of the world, a single-minded determination that it takes to excel in a particular area (the educational system) eschewing any other considerations it takes to be a full, complete normal human being.
fit2rule 11y ago
A predictable response from a supporter of the military-industrial complex. Those who use secrecy to rule deserve the right to neither.
junto 11y ago
First hand actually, although granted, the culture might have magically changed over the last 15 years.
raverbashing 11y ago
Good thing that you added nothing to the discussion then

scrollaway 11y ago

> A populist viewpoint with no basis whatsoever in reality. What you just said serves no purpose. Can you please provide sources and alternative viewpoints people can actually discuss, rather than belittle someone for commenting on a story?

wisty 11y ago
I think it's wrong to just categorise law enforcement as a bunch of racists. Especially in the UK (cough Rotherham). It's also a bit strange to hear someone accusing the police of all being black and white thinkers, who like putting everyone in little boxes, enjoy using their power, and being extremely insular. You could say the same about the kind of progressives who think all police are racists. There probably is an element of truth, in that law enforcement does have black and white thinking. If someone is a suspect, they can act like it's their job to haul them in at all costs, unless breaking the rules would hurt the case. Yes, it's an adversarial legal system, but sometimes the police and prosecution can seem to lack discretion. Also, the amount of funding they have to clamp down on terrorism is quite disproportionate. There's a lot of police tracking down a tiny number of needles in a haystack, so anyone who looks remotely like a terrorist risks being treated as a suspect.
petewailes 11y ago
Happily. http://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/spy-career-secret-service http://www.theguardian.com/careers/careers-blog/spy-career-s... http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/3180 http://www.varsity.co.uk/news/3180 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/forget-bond-mi5-wants-cat-loving-twentysomethings-424915.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/forget-bon... For starters. They're not normal people, in that they're recruited by elitist institutions from other elitist institutions. Not dissimilar to how branches of our industry work, although the profile for who they want is somewhat different. But for the most part, in terms of personality, they're fairly normal people. There aren't any mustachioed villains sitting around wondering how best to abuse their powers. Yes, there's some who enjoy wielding the power they have, but the same is true in business, and doctors like performing surgery. Mischaracterising people like this does no service to the reader, no better than people who take controversial political figures and characture and demonise them. In the end, it just makes for a lower level of discourse and a worldview lacking in nuance. Ironically, what the poster was complaining about.
- wfo 11y ago
  Comparing them to tech industry folks is not doing you any favors; the tech industry is EXTREMELY insular and thinks in almost lockstep. Look at the magic contentless words people use like "disruption" like a mantra to express group identity and nothing more. The tech industry clings onto weird extreme political views that are laughably absurd to almost anyone else, the extreme libertarians you see at the forefront, the anti-education people, the people who want to remove all patents and IP. Coming here is like entering a weird extremist alternate-reality echo chamber on the weirdest issues the tech industry seems to have a hard-on for. Poll us on any issue relating to technology or politics and you will find we are so radically different from the general population. And we're (almost) all white, middle-upper class Indian or East Asian men. If the intelligence community is anything like that I'm much more afraid than before I read your post. And the fact that you start out by saying they are cherry-picked from elite institutions and then you go on to say they are normal -- the first notion completely contradicts the second. Elite institutions often come with narcissism, a notion that you know better than the rest of the world, a single-minded determination that it takes to excel in a particular area (the educational system) eschewing any other considerations it takes to be a full, complete normal human being.

fit2rule 11y ago

A predictable response from a supporter of the military-industrial complex. Those who use secrecy to rule deserve the right to neither.

junto 11y ago

First hand actually, although granted, the culture might have magically changed over the last 15 years.

raverbashing 11y ago

Good thing that you added nothing to the discussion then