6 ms·

Server logs are missing important information like screen resolution, navigator.language etc. Server logs also can't report on element events. Nor does it wor

by adrr 11y ago

Server logs are missing important information like screen resolution, navigator.language etc. Server logs also can't report on element events. Nor does it work with things like single page apps. How can developers make their apps better without having the proper analytics to do so?

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
Store that info and bundle it into the next request.
downandout 11y ago
You can certainly obtain this information with your own javascript and record it on your own server. Combine it with your server logs and you have can most of the same information you would have had from GA or another hosted solution.
- jamiesonbecker 11y ago
  Agreed! but s/most/all/g FTFY :) Actually, GA only provides you with a [meager] subset of the data that Google gathers. Now it's their data.. not yours, and not your customers. They won't even give up IP addresses so that you can check it against your own logs.
- icoder 11y ago
  Yes, and although that would remedy some of the tracking/privacy concerns with GA, the (grand)parent comment's concern with bandwidth would not be solved but transformed when taking the road you describe.
- natarius4k 11y ago
  I have build myself a little rails gem to help with that: https://github.com/KaktusLab/sql_metrics https://github.com/KaktusLab/sql_metrics
  - mhw 11y ago
    I've had pretty good experiences so far with Ahoy - https://ankane.github.io/ahoy/ https://ankane.github.io/ahoy/
- blumkvist 11y ago
  AFAIK, you can use even use google's javascript library.
_hyn3 11y ago
We're dropping all third party domains at Userify [1] (plug: SSH key management software for EC2), but for reasons of both security and privacy. What would happen to your website (or millions of websites) if one of the CDN's that you rely on started quietly issuing evil code to a few, targeted users? Would you notice? Would your users? I don't think that it'd be too hard for us to add a simple API call that pokes data about screen resolution, browser agent string, language, etc upon load or login, and it'll be far more efficient and private than us sending random data off to GA or similar where they frequently don't even provide us IP addresses of our own site visitors so that we can correlate the data against our own logs. The data that GA gathers is highly valuable... to Google. They only provide you visibility of the tippy tip of the iceberg.. but ultimately it's your customers' and your data, not theirs. Don't compromise your users with third-party includes, even Google Fonts (which is still our last holdout on the website.. hm, someone should make a simple web app that gathers names and styles of fonts and provides a zip w/ pre-generated CSS.) CDN's sound great but they're a huge privacy hole. Ask yourself; what's the profit model? Are they really just an opportunity to gather valuable data on other people's websites and browsing habits? (yes). Please don't leak your customers' data. 1. https://Userify.com https://Userify.com
- lifeisstillgood 11y ago
  All third party domains - wonderful :-). Please tell us more - would like to follow suit (am revamping my site. Where I have a different privacy protection strategy - no-one ever visits so no privacy loss)
  - roel_v 11y ago
    What are you asking? How to host your own css/jquery etc? (sorry if I'm an annoying old fart in the rest of this remark but I went back to desktop software 15 years ago (yes that sounds weird) and the last 2-4 years I have more and more troubles understanding discussions on modern web development as everything that was once considered Very Bad is now not only encouraged, but taken as the natural state of affairs - e.g. javascript for core functionality, the 'css is bad, do it in javascript' movement, 'semantic markup should not even be attempted', 'frontend frameworks', ...) So yeah my question is not sarcastic, I'm just asking for some context.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
> How can developers make their apps better without having the proper analytics to do so? Of course. They can just ask people. Let's not pretend that all this data is for developers. It's only for a) advertisers to shit more on your users, and b) sales to micromanage the site into getting more conversions, usually at the cost of utility.
belorn 11y ago
As someone mentioned below, there is self-hosted solutions to analytics tools like the free software project piwik. Nothing the app development process require that you send your customer data to a third-party for collection and processing.
pferde 11y ago
That's good, you have no business knowing my screen resolution, browser language nor lot of other information. You just feel entitled to have them, for some unfathomable reason. Just prepare your web{site,app} and have the webserver serve it to my browser. If it is too large for my screen, my browser has these newfangled things called scrollbars to deal with it, and I will see that my screen is too small to comfortably view content you graciously share with me.
- JupiterMoon 11y ago
  I couldn't agree more. Why can't web developers produce websites that just serve clean standards compliant html+css(+/-javascript where really need -- no highjacking scrolling is not a good use for javascript) and trust my browser to display it how I like it?
JupiterMoon 11y ago
> How can developers make their apps better without having the proper analytics to do so? The same way as desktop developers do. Test things yourself and get you mother (or some non-techy person) to try it out and see how much she/he swears when attempting to use it.
- icebraining 11y ago
  The same way as desktop developers do. Well, did - I regret to tell you that desktop developers are now using analytics as well, using stuff like DeskMetrics and Trackerbird.

by adrr 11y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

Store that info and bundle it into the next request.

downandout 11y ago

You can certainly obtain this information with your own javascript and record it on your own server. Combine it with your server logs and you have can most of the same information you would have had from GA or another hosted solution.

jamiesonbecker 11y ago
Agreed! but s/most/all/g FTFY :) Actually, GA only provides you with a [meager] subset of the data that Google gathers. Now it's their data.. not yours, and not your customers. They won't even give up IP addresses so that you can check it against your own logs.
icoder 11y ago
Yes, and although that would remedy some of the tracking/privacy concerns with GA, the (grand)parent comment's concern with bandwidth would not be solved but transformed when taking the road you describe.
natarius4k 11y ago
I have build myself a little rails gem to help with that: https://github.com/KaktusLab/sql_metrics https://github.com/KaktusLab/sql_metrics
- mhw 11y ago
  I've had pretty good experiences so far with Ahoy - https://ankane.github.io/ahoy/ https://ankane.github.io/ahoy/
blumkvist 11y ago
AFAIK, you can use even use google's javascript library.

_hyn3 11y ago

We're dropping all third party domains at Userify [1] (plug: SSH key management software for EC2), but for reasons of both security and privacy. What would happen to your website (or millions of websites) if one of the CDN's that you rely on started quietly issuing evil code to a few, targeted users? Would you notice? Would your users? I don't think that it'd be too hard for us to add a simple API call that pokes data about screen resolution, browser agent string, language, etc upon load or login, and it'll be far more efficient and private than us sending random data off to GA or similar where they frequently don't even provide us IP addresses of our own site visitors so that we can correlate the data against our own logs. The data that GA gathers is highly valuable... to Google. They only provide you visibility of the tippy tip of the iceberg.. but ultimately it's your customers' and your data, not theirs. Don't compromise your users with third-party includes, even Google Fonts (which is still our last holdout on the website.. hm, someone should make a simple web app that gathers names and styles of fonts and provides a zip w/ pre-generated CSS.) CDN's sound great but they're a huge privacy hole. Ask yourself; what's the profit model? Are they really just an opportunity to gather valuable data on other people's websites and browsing habits? (yes). Please don't leak your customers' data. 1. https://Userify.com https://Userify.com

lifeisstillgood 11y ago
All third party domains - wonderful :-). Please tell us more - would like to follow suit (am revamping my site. Where I have a different privacy protection strategy - no-one ever visits so no privacy loss)
- roel_v 11y ago
  What are you asking? How to host your own css/jquery etc? (sorry if I'm an annoying old fart in the rest of this remark but I went back to desktop software 15 years ago (yes that sounds weird) and the last 2-4 years I have more and more troubles understanding discussions on modern web development as everything that was once considered Very Bad is now not only encouraged, but taken as the natural state of affairs - e.g. javascript for core functionality, the 'css is bad, do it in javascript' movement, 'semantic markup should not even be attempted', 'frontend frameworks', ...) So yeah my question is not sarcastic, I'm just asking for some context.

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> How can developers make their apps better without having the proper analytics to do so? Of course. They can just ask people. Let's not pretend that all this data is for developers. It's only for a) advertisers to shit more on your users, and b) sales to micromanage the site into getting more conversions, usually at the cost of utility.

belorn 11y ago

As someone mentioned below, there is self-hosted solutions to analytics tools like the free software project piwik. Nothing the app development process require that you send your customer data to a third-party for collection and processing.

pferde 11y ago

That's good, you have no business knowing my screen resolution, browser language nor lot of other information. You just feel entitled to have them, for some unfathomable reason. Just prepare your web{site,app} and have the webserver serve it to my browser. If it is too large for my screen, my browser has these newfangled things called scrollbars to deal with it, and I will see that my screen is too small to comfortably view content you graciously share with me.

JupiterMoon 11y ago
I couldn't agree more. Why can't web developers produce websites that just serve clean standards compliant html+css(+/-javascript where really need -- no highjacking scrolling is not a good use for javascript) and trust my browser to display it how I like it?

JupiterMoon 11y ago

> How can developers make their apps better without having the proper analytics to do so? The same way as desktop developers do. Test things yourself and get you mother (or some non-techy person) to try it out and see how much she/he swears when attempting to use it.

icebraining 11y ago
The same way as desktop developers do. Well, did - I regret to tell you that desktop developers are now using analytics as well, using stuff like DeskMetrics and Trackerbird.