10 ms·

Lobbyists Win Right to Bombard Student Borrowers with Robocalls

117 points by boh 11y ago

tlb 11y ago
Starting a few months ago, I'm getting a few robocalls a week from "your local google specialist" and such scams. My number is listed in donotcall.gov. It makes me want to not answer unrecognized numbers on my phone. It's now the case that a database of every phone number (10 billion entries, highly compressible) could be mirrored to every phone, with a reputation score for each number. Or looked up in real time. The phone company won't do it -- it'll have to be independent, like an ad blocker. I'd buy a subscription to that database.
- ivank 11y ago
  "Block robocalls, telemarketers and other spammers automatically with our Community Blacklist feature." https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flexaspect.android.everycallcontrol&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flexaspect...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- djcapelis 11y ago
  Yeah, they do this to any number that is listed on a business document ever. I ported my number to run through google voice, which catches only a few of them, and pretty much have stopped picking up most calls from unlisted numbers. It's sad. The major problem with some of these issues is that if I understand it right, the phone system often isn't always aware of the source of the calls because they get routed through foreign gateways and voip and the number you see in the caller ID is spoofed and has no connection to anything. The FCC is aware this is happening and these fall within its jurisdiction, but they're having trouble enforcing the rules. The fact that congress is revoking the FCC's ability to enforce these rules for student loans is just bog standard corruption.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    It's worth considering picking up and asking them to put you on their courtesy do not call list (not argumentatively, just ask). Even scammers don't want to waste resources on people that aren't going to convert and this is a pretty strong signal. It usually works even when you have to talk over an aggressive operator to say it.
    - djcapelis 11y ago
      Yeah that doesn't work at all, they just hang up and move on, they don't stop. No one doing these things is being paid to maintain the list or prune numbers. And for whatever it's worth, the FCC also recommends that if possible you don't pick up at all.
      - maxerickson 11y ago
        It's worked for me...
        djcapelis 11y ago
        For a robo caller autodialing numbers listed on the do not call list against all FCC guidelines? It'll totally work with regular telemarketers, but that isn't what we're talking about here. Basically there's two things going on: Robo calling, which is restricted under FCC regulations. And calling numbers on the do not call list, which is also restricted under FCC regulations. Someone who does both... usually isn't going to stop if you ask them to. I'm curious if you've experienced otherwise, very few people report having any success with that. Most call centers who violate federal two different federal regulations while dialing your number don't particularly spend time maintaining their calling lists.
        maxerickson 11y ago
        Yes. Obvious scammer calls, skip answering a few times, same scammer keeps calling, answer & ask, poof, no more calls. Of course it doesn't end such calls altogether, but 2 a week is a damn sight better than several a day. Do you have direct knowledge that they would not bother managing their call lists, or do we have dueling suppositions?
- Turing_Machine 11y ago
  I never answer unrecognized numbers. I can't even remember the last time an unrecognized call was someone I actually wanted to talk to.
  - rogerbinns 11y ago
    Same here. I also use Google Voice, so they can leave a message which is (often humourously) transcribed and sent as email and sms. The legit calls (eg dry cleaning is ready) get through. The spammers never leave a message.
- eli 11y ago
  A database doesn't help you when the called ID is spoofed to a random number that has no connection to the person calling. I've noticed the robocalls I get seem to have the same area code and prefix as my number and the last four digits appear to be random.
  - cordite 11y ago
    I've gotten the same robocall for house security systems from totally random area codes every time. I wonder if services like trello are being used/abused for these. (And is unsolicited robo calls against their TOS?)
    - uxp 11y ago
      > trello You're looking for Twilio.
      - cordite 11y ago
        You are correct.
    - rtkwe 11y ago
      I've gotten those before and iirc there's a press # to not call again and it's worked so far. Same with the solar tax credit calls but those came back every few months from a new number until recently.
  - vitd 11y ago
    While that's true, I've never seen a system that will randomize the spoofed number on every call. We regularly see the same number show up on our caller-ID for weeks on end. In fact, in one case the "I'm calling from Windows" people had their caller ID changed to "DO NOT PICK UP" for a few days, I'm guess by a disgruntled employee. So I think a database would help if it could be updated in near-real time. If 100 people across the country get a call from the same bogus number, it could get added immediately and stop thousands more calls from going out that night, at least.
- gruez 11y ago
  but you can't rely on the phone number reported by caller id - they're very spoofable.
- lost_my_pwd 11y ago
  There are quite a few Android apps out that crowdsource call blocklists. I have been using Truecaller[0] with good results thus far. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.truecaller https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.truecaller
- arbitrage 11y ago
  > It makes me want to not answer unrecognized numbers on my phone. So don't? It's your phone, after all. Just let it go to VM.
- cmiles74 11y ago
  I don't answer un-recognized calls, especially toll-free originators. I think it's entirely reasonable and they are always free to leave a voicemail.
- wcummings 11y ago
  >It makes me want to not answer unrecognized numbers on my phone. Why would you ever answer unrecognized numbers?
- patio11 11y ago
  Try nomorobo. They get you to set up simultaneous-ring with one of their numbers. For each incoming call, if it fails their reputation scoring, their system simply "picks up" immediately and plays a pre-recorded message. Your main number then doesn't receive the call (timing issues notwithstanding). They have an interesting way of building the reputation database: in addition to receiving customer reports, they buy Twilio's "dirtiest" phone numbers, the ones getting so spammed they're unusable by other businesses. If you call ~3 dirty numbers, welcome to the dynamic block list.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    How am I just learning about this now? This is amazing. You've been to my house several times; how did you never tell me "uh you know you don't need to be getting those robocalls you get all day"?
  - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
    Doesn't work with the callers who spoof your own phone number.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      Here in the UK, calling your own number seems to be used exclusively for configuration stuff (voicemail etc.). Is there any normal use for it in the states? If not, surely you should just blacklist your own number? (I'm aware that any time you say "you should just ..." it's never that simple)
  - j-conn 11y ago
    Very cool. Can they somehow detect / prevent malicious actors impersonating legitimate phone numbers to get them blacklisted?
    - patio11 11y ago
      You get an audio capcha ("This phone is protected by NoMoRobo. Press $NUMBER to prove you aren't a robot. Press $NUMBER to prove you aren't a robot. ... Goodbye.") $NUMBER is two randomly generated digits. Presumably one can feedback loop that into the reputation score. Honestly, though, I don't think this is a terribly likely attack.
- Kluny 11y ago
  I have a contact in my phone labelled "Spam" that lists 30 numbers and counting. Calls from those numbers go straight to voicemail and their texts are blocked. I'll gladly donate them to the database.
- TodPunk 11y ago
  I do two things for this. One, I have a separate phone line that I largely ignore, and I give this as my main contact line for people or businesses that I have no dire need to talk to. Best Buy, for instance. If it's important, they'll leave a voicemail. This started as a land line, that was expensive but I needed DSL anyway (this was 10 years ago). It moved to a cell phone with basic service. Fees sucked, so I started (shameless plug) Phone Janitor[1] to give me better filtering. This allows me to check voicemail anywhere, unlike my cell line (unless I sign up for their service) and just transferred it to my own company. Turns out this helps a lot of other folks with similar privacy desires. Control is a wonderful thing. Ultimately it's really, really crappy, but the Telecoms and the FCC don't want to be too heavy handed in this, and advertisers are finding new ways of skirting the donotcall rules. They ruined SMS in this regard[2] as well, deliberately. [1] - https://phonejanitor.com/ https://phonejanitor.com/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_spoofing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_spoofing
- bjt123 11y ago
  OR give up on phone numbers altogether and just use WhatsApp. The mobile carriers lose.
- mey 11y ago
  I've started taking glee filling out the FCC form https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us
c0ur7n3y 11y ago
You can always setup an Asterix box and put Lenny on the case: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOGWrXlhl-i_3g https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nO... "Lenny" is a hilarious set of recorded messages designed to waste telemarketers' time." On a personal note, I have to say that there is something so satisfying about a robot answering these calls. A caller normally has the advantage that you can't see them, have no idea who they are, and they can do it at scale. Lenny turns those very advantages against them.
- afarrell 11y ago
  Of course, most people can't do this for reasons similar to why Johnny can't Encrypt.
  - anon4 11y ago
    Would it be possible to set this up for others? If yes, I see a business opportunity...
- nicholasjarnold 11y ago
  These recordings are pretty amazing. I've recently experienced an uptick in spam-call volume (despite being very cagey about who/what gets access to my real phone number), and I think this video just tipped the scales on whether or not I'll be setting up my own Asterix box this weekend. Thank you for this!
- earlz 11y ago
  This really makes me curious as to how this works and how complicated it was to setup lol
  - medmunds 11y ago
    The Lenny algorithm is quite simple: wait for silence, play the next recording. That's it. The recordings are always played in the same sequence. There's no speech recognition involved. The cleverness, of course, is that Lenny's script (and vocal delivery) seems brilliantly designed to keep telemarketers and scammers going on and on and on...
arca_vorago 11y ago
Lobbyist and K-Street are at the core of the problem in the Beltway. I've spent a long time trying to figure out the root issues there, and I think short term limits are the best way to prevent this, because here how it happens. You get elected on hopes and dreams, and propose a bill, but you are a freshman. The senior guy you ask to help you sponsor the bill which is only 10 pages long then says he will support you if you add an amendment that says X, even that amendment has nothing to do with the main bill, and he has been donated money or promised campaign support by $KSTREETGROUP. If you say no, you get derailed, the bill never leaves committee, and you have made an enemy. You agree, and then the floodgates are open for 10 other sitting house members to throw in their amendments too. Before you know it, your bill is 250 pages and they removed all your original text and it's no longer your bill. If you rock the boat, you make enemies and forever get shoved aside. Agree and support the bill you introduced, that is actually now bad legislation, and all those people say they will help you next time. In this case, it's more of the, this bill has to pass, so we can add all kinds of little tidbits and the public won't know about them in time to stop it!. Then you might have a guy or two who actually put that tidbit in vote no just so he has some plausible deniability to his constituents who don't know any better because reports on the hill suck these days. We need to get rid of excessive riders, last minute riders on big bills, extend time for public review, and give power back to congress/senate to take stances without being pushed over politically. The thing is that the lobbyist will mostly just promise to get the guy fired if they push back too much, or they will then donate to another guy who's been in for 18 years and get him to put the pressure on. If we put short term limits (and I don't mean 12 years, I mean 6 year limits) then you can get people who will do stuff and not care about getting booted out, because they never had the intention to turn it into a lifetime job in the first place. Also, we need to stop the revolving door between the hill and k-street. Staffers should not be allowed to turn around and go work for them, as Jack Abramoff put it, once he promised a staffer a job, he found out that they would do more for him than he even asked them to do! We have a broken system, and until we address these fundamental problems, all the other issues people are passionate about will never get fixed properly. Fix the system first, then work on the more mainstream issues. Vote arca_vorago for congress.
- hwstar 11y ago
  How about a constitutional amendment which states that a bill can only address 1 issue. Separate bills would be required for K street lobbyists to address their interests, and then they would have a tougher time getting these passed.
Spearchucker 11y ago
I bought my phone for my convenience, not anyone else's. It has a whitelist, and if a number isn't on it, it goes to voicemail. Which has a message instructing callers to send me an email, as I don't check my voicemail. I've been running this arrangement for some years now, and it works beautifully.
- sarciszewski 11y ago
  Same. I actually use Call Control for this exact purpose. Email > Phone Calls any day of the week. Especially with strangers.
- hwstar 11y ago
  Bill collectors have been known to spoof caller ID with relatives' phone numbers. Yes, I know this is illegal, but it is still done. The best approach is audio captcha where you have to enter a random 3 digit code to get the phone to ring. This throws off most call centers because, the part which makes the phone ring is automated. Once the line is answered, an agent is connected to the line. If the collection agency does not use automated dialing, then DTMF passwords may be necessary. This is a pain for friends and family, but it can be a very effective filter.
  - cortesoft 11y ago
    Yeah, my wife is going to love having to enter a random code every time she needs to call me.
  - doodpants 11y ago
    A CAPTCHA is never the best approach to anything.
    - Natanael_L 11y ago
      Depends on how much you like taking calls. Having CAPTCHA in incoming calls would be very appreciated by a large number of introverts.
mindo 11y ago
I don't really understand that lobbying thing, who is paying who to officially make life worse for citizens and how this is justified? PS: I'm not american.
- hwstar 11y ago
  Instead of a government for the People, the People, and of the People, it's actually a government for the Opulent Minority, by the Opulent Minority and of the Opulent Minority. James Madison stated: "Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability."
  - hwstar 11y ago
    You know what, you guys who did this are better than this. If you are going to downvote, then explain why.
- stoolpigeon 11y ago
  Anyone can lobby and so groups who have similar interests raise funds to send people to speak to government officials about what they would like to see done by the government. It's pretty simple.
stoolpigeon 11y ago
I worked in the collections industry for a while. It was my first programming job. I don't understand debtors that don't want to get calls letting them know what is happening. I get it in the sense that they didn't pay their bills and they've chosen denial as their plan for dealing with it but I don't get why anyone else would want to validate that kind of behavior. But if that is the route they want to go the FCDPA clearly states that they can force the debt collector to cease communication for the most part and the avenues that remain open are via written mail. I understand that sometimes an old number or something might be called in error but that has be a pretty rare thing and something easy to deal with on the receiving end. I think the best way to avoid robocalls from debt collectors is to not let your debt go into collections.
- Eldarrion 11y ago
  That really depends on the situation and the debt collector company in question. My phone is on the do-not-call list, and I have never defaulted on a debt. My phone number has also been mine for eight years now. Two years back, I was getting somewhere along the lines of ten-fifteen calls a day about a debt under a completely different name. They were all robocalls that didn't give the option to stop them contacting me, and repeated calls from me to their company, asking that they cease the harassment and that the person they're calling hasn't used that phone number for at least six years resulted in a lot of "Yeah, okay, we'll stop" only for the frustration and annoyance to continue. In the end, I spent somewhere along the lines of three hours of my time in a single day to get in touch with a high-up enough person that could actually take action and stop the calls. This does not include the numerous previous times I called the company and asked my phone number to be removed from their list, or the amount of frustration the numerous daily calls caused. From what I understand, debt collector agencies tend to be on the shadier side. Not saying there aren't companies that actually handle matters the way they're supposed to, I'm sure they are, but from what I've seen they're the minority. There was even a case where an agency had decided that I had a debt (Amusingly, the amount there was $8.95) and went as far as contacting my grandmother in another country and threatening her that they'd take her house away if she didn't contact me and make me pay the debt I owed them. I've also heard of stories where parents/relatives of friends were contacted and passively threatened with remarks like "We know where you live". So no, free reign to make robocalls isn't a good thing in my opinion. If anything, companies that make those illegally/after being asked to cease should be getting punished instead.
mutagen 11y ago
Spam and the like are going to ruin telecommunications like they've ruined email. It will be a slower process while they get bolder about skirting rules but they're going to get there. Wait until these spammers and debt collectors get your social graph, your contact lists and the like, from failed mobile startups. You're going to start getting fake caller ID from friends and relatives. The endgame is a balkanization of incompatible proprietary telecommunication clients all running you and your devices through a reverse Turing test to confirm legitimate communications. Oh, you'll still be able to get calls if you like, they'll all go to voicemail so your own neural networks can pick out the ones worthwhile to listen to.
- mrits 11y ago
  Seeing how 90% of my contacts are recruiters I don't know I'm not too worried about it.
- ghaff 11y ago
  I'm actually not all that concerned. Telemarketing has been going on for a very long time. That's what drove the do-not-call registry and related laws in the first place. I'm not saying what still exists (whether because of deliberate loopholes in the laws or simply breaking them) isn't annoying but it doesn't really seem to be getting worse either from personal experience or from the experience of others I speak with. I get very few junk calls on my cell--though why there isn't a "report junk call" button I don't know. Home gets a steady enough stream to be annoying (2 or 3 a day) but they're easy enough to ignore if I don't recognize the caller ID.
- Natanael_L 11y ago
  Or everything goes to mutually authenticated encrypted VoIP with whitelists. Like Signal.
astockwell 11y ago
Anymore, answering the phone simply because it is ringing is an anachronism. Ditto to having a land-line (especially without caller ID!). These companies pushed so hard that they've pushed all the sensible folks out of their reach permanently. And kudos to the new wave of phone OSs that allow for blocking any number from your phone itself. We saw that the government wasn't going to do it, carriers certainly didn't do it, so companies and individuals did it.
- CaptSpify 11y ago
  It's almost like the best course of action for any of these communication systems is educating the user, and giving them the tools to do it themselves! Who would have thought?!
andreasklinger 11y ago
Next up: Anti Call Spam software for Mobile devices becoming a big thing. Built in by default in iOS12. History repeating…
vaadu 11y ago
The Washington Cartel strikes again.
jreed91 11y ago
How about this? I'll answer your calls, if you decrease my loan payment each time.
vonklaus 11y ago
i have been getting crushed by these. i freely admit that the debt is my responsibility ~6k credit cards. but every day 5 calls. fake numbers from my area code (town over) my state doesnt have a chase bank in it and prob no capital one either. 2 months late. call back after i have the money and say i will pay current in a week. all of the collection department (to be clear these are still part of the bank, represented themselves as banking employees, and get routed via a bank number) they offered me $90 bucks off. call back to make direct payment in line with the verbal agreement. them: sir i have no call notes me: ok, let me look. i actually do think i said i would phone you back and pay i have that in my call notes. Them: yes, it says you owe us $100 today. me : (whered those notes come from mate) oh, ok so you were able to find thr notes. do you have the paymeny arrangements i made with lisa? Them : no. me: she offered me an arrangement. them: oh i do see that yes $30 dollars me: (i have detailed call notes with her and everones employee number i spoke with extrapolating the rapidly illegitimate deal they can't put in writiing because it is a service and convenience) sure, well she offered me $90 and i will pay right now, even though i said it wpuld be a week, if you give me the deal she offered which might be in the notes if you look closer (you lieing dickhead) them: no sir, i can give you $30. me: let me think about it and consult my notes, i don't feel confortable paying today. them: ok ---- 2 minutes elapse robo call local number from town over of 7k people. on line don't answer. -- robocall from same number. demanding payment. have similar accent to callcenter people, act like they arent affiliated. look, my fault for not paying and sure i broke the agreement, but fuck this. i dont have to pay i will just never get a credit card this decade. but im trying even on shitty financial terms now to pay you because it is an obligation. but calling me 5x times from fake numbers is fucked up on a 2 missed payments over 2+ years of good standing. couldnt imagine what actual collections would do. this story was about fictional bank p.j morgones. also i want to note capital one was cool about it and as professional (or more) than me as i dis reneg on my card services agreement and they called from their real number
- jbooth 11y ago
  That sounds like it's not the bank, but some shady player that the bank sold your debt to for .01 on the dollar. If you want to settle the debt, do some research on these players so you don't just throw the money away without getting any credit for it on your credit report.
Natsu 11y ago
The new number on my cell used to belong to someone with a debt. No matter how often I explain that the person they want is not and never will be available at this number again, they keep calling as they sell the debt and the info to new people. So they continually robocall my cell phone chasing someone who isn't and never will be at this number. I do not have and never have had any unpaid debts to begin with. I had to install a call blocking app and I just keep listing new numbers each time. It doesn't buy very much peace, but it blocks enough calls to be worthwhile.
downandout 11y ago
I guess I don't understand the point of this. It appears that these legislators don't understand that permanent blocking of calls and texts from an annoying number are just a tap away in both Android and iOS. They'll be spending millions to harass no one.

117 points by boh 11y ago

tlb 11y ago

Starting a few months ago, I'm getting a few robocalls a week from "your local google specialist" and such scams. My number is listed in donotcall.gov. It makes me want to not answer unrecognized numbers on my phone. It's now the case that a database of every phone number (10 billion entries, highly compressible) could be mirrored to every phone, with a reputation score for each number. Or looked up in real time. The phone company won't do it -- it'll have to be independent, like an ad blocker. I'd buy a subscription to that database.

ivank 11y ago
"Block robocalls, telemarketers and other spammers automatically with our Community Blacklist feature." https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flexaspect.android.everycallcontrol&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.flexaspect...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
djcapelis 11y ago
Yeah, they do this to any number that is listed on a business document ever. I ported my number to run through google voice, which catches only a few of them, and pretty much have stopped picking up most calls from unlisted numbers. It's sad. The major problem with some of these issues is that if I understand it right, the phone system often isn't always aware of the source of the calls because they get routed through foreign gateways and voip and the number you see in the caller ID is spoofed and has no connection to anything. The FCC is aware this is happening and these fall within its jurisdiction, but they're having trouble enforcing the rules. The fact that congress is revoking the FCC's ability to enforce these rules for student loans is just bog standard corruption.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  It's worth considering picking up and asking them to put you on their courtesy do not call list (not argumentatively, just ask). Even scammers don't want to waste resources on people that aren't going to convert and this is a pretty strong signal. It usually works even when you have to talk over an aggressive operator to say it.
  - djcapelis 11y ago
    Yeah that doesn't work at all, they just hang up and move on, they don't stop. No one doing these things is being paid to maintain the list or prune numbers. And for whatever it's worth, the FCC also recommends that if possible you don't pick up at all.
    - maxerickson 11y ago
      It's worked for me...
      - djcapelis 11y ago
        For a robo caller autodialing numbers listed on the do not call list against all FCC guidelines? It'll totally work with regular telemarketers, but that isn't what we're talking about here. Basically there's two things going on: Robo calling, which is restricted under FCC regulations. And calling numbers on the do not call list, which is also restricted under FCC regulations. Someone who does both... usually isn't going to stop if you ask them to. I'm curious if you've experienced otherwise, very few people report having any success with that. Most call centers who violate federal two different federal regulations while dialing your number don't particularly spend time maintaining their calling lists.
        maxerickson 11y ago
        Yes. Obvious scammer calls, skip answering a few times, same scammer keeps calling, answer & ask, poof, no more calls. Of course it doesn't end such calls altogether, but 2 a week is a damn sight better than several a day. Do you have direct knowledge that they would not bother managing their call lists, or do we have dueling suppositions?
Turing_Machine 11y ago
I never answer unrecognized numbers. I can't even remember the last time an unrecognized call was someone I actually wanted to talk to.
- rogerbinns 11y ago
  Same here. I also use Google Voice, so they can leave a message which is (often humourously) transcribed and sent as email and sms. The legit calls (eg dry cleaning is ready) get through. The spammers never leave a message.
eli 11y ago
A database doesn't help you when the called ID is spoofed to a random number that has no connection to the person calling. I've noticed the robocalls I get seem to have the same area code and prefix as my number and the last four digits appear to be random.
- cordite 11y ago
  I've gotten the same robocall for house security systems from totally random area codes every time. I wonder if services like trello are being used/abused for these. (And is unsolicited robo calls against their TOS?)
  - uxp 11y ago
    > trello You're looking for Twilio.
    - cordite 11y ago
      You are correct.
  - rtkwe 11y ago
    I've gotten those before and iirc there's a press # to not call again and it's worked so far. Same with the solar tax credit calls but those came back every few months from a new number until recently.
- vitd 11y ago
  While that's true, I've never seen a system that will randomize the spoofed number on every call. We regularly see the same number show up on our caller-ID for weeks on end. In fact, in one case the "I'm calling from Windows" people had their caller ID changed to "DO NOT PICK UP" for a few days, I'm guess by a disgruntled employee. So I think a database would help if it could be updated in near-real time. If 100 people across the country get a call from the same bogus number, it could get added immediately and stop thousands more calls from going out that night, at least.
gruez 11y ago
but you can't rely on the phone number reported by caller id - they're very spoofable.
lost_my_pwd 11y ago
There are quite a few Android apps out that crowdsource call blocklists. I have been using Truecaller[0] with good results thus far. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.truecaller https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.truecaller
arbitrage 11y ago
> It makes me want to not answer unrecognized numbers on my phone. So don't? It's your phone, after all. Just let it go to VM.
cmiles74 11y ago
I don't answer un-recognized calls, especially toll-free originators. I think it's entirely reasonable and they are always free to leave a voicemail.
wcummings 11y ago
>It makes me want to not answer unrecognized numbers on my phone. Why would you ever answer unrecognized numbers?
patio11 11y ago
Try nomorobo. They get you to set up simultaneous-ring with one of their numbers. For each incoming call, if it fails their reputation scoring, their system simply "picks up" immediately and plays a pre-recorded message. Your main number then doesn't receive the call (timing issues notwithstanding). They have an interesting way of building the reputation database: in addition to receiving customer reports, they buy Twilio's "dirtiest" phone numbers, the ones getting so spammed they're unusable by other businesses. If you call ~3 dirty numbers, welcome to the dynamic block list.
- tptacek 11y ago
  How am I just learning about this now? This is amazing. You've been to my house several times; how did you never tell me "uh you know you don't need to be getting those robocalls you get all day"?
- kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
  Doesn't work with the callers who spoof your own phone number.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    Here in the UK, calling your own number seems to be used exclusively for configuration stuff (voicemail etc.). Is there any normal use for it in the states? If not, surely you should just blacklist your own number? (I'm aware that any time you say "you should just ..." it's never that simple)
- j-conn 11y ago
  Very cool. Can they somehow detect / prevent malicious actors impersonating legitimate phone numbers to get them blacklisted?
  - patio11 11y ago
    You get an audio capcha ("This phone is protected by NoMoRobo. Press $NUMBER to prove you aren't a robot. Press $NUMBER to prove you aren't a robot. ... Goodbye.") $NUMBER is two randomly generated digits. Presumably one can feedback loop that into the reputation score. Honestly, though, I don't think this is a terribly likely attack.
Kluny 11y ago
I have a contact in my phone labelled "Spam" that lists 30 numbers and counting. Calls from those numbers go straight to voicemail and their texts are blocked. I'll gladly donate them to the database.
TodPunk 11y ago
I do two things for this. One, I have a separate phone line that I largely ignore, and I give this as my main contact line for people or businesses that I have no dire need to talk to. Best Buy, for instance. If it's important, they'll leave a voicemail. This started as a land line, that was expensive but I needed DSL anyway (this was 10 years ago). It moved to a cell phone with basic service. Fees sucked, so I started (shameless plug) Phone Janitor[1] to give me better filtering. This allows me to check voicemail anywhere, unlike my cell line (unless I sign up for their service) and just transferred it to my own company. Turns out this helps a lot of other folks with similar privacy desires. Control is a wonderful thing. Ultimately it's really, really crappy, but the Telecoms and the FCC don't want to be too heavy handed in this, and advertisers are finding new ways of skirting the donotcall rules. They ruined SMS in this regard[2] as well, deliberately. [1] - https://phonejanitor.com/ https://phonejanitor.com/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_spoofing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_spoofing
bjt123 11y ago
OR give up on phone numbers altogether and just use WhatsApp. The mobile carriers lose.
mey 11y ago
I've started taking glee filling out the FCC form https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us

c0ur7n3y 11y ago

You can always setup an Asterix box and put Lenny on the case: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nOGWrXlhl-i_3g https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduL71_GKzHHk4hLga0nO... "Lenny" is a hilarious set of recorded messages designed to waste telemarketers' time." On a personal note, I have to say that there is something so satisfying about a robot answering these calls. A caller normally has the advantage that you can't see them, have no idea who they are, and they can do it at scale. Lenny turns those very advantages against them.

afarrell 11y ago
Of course, most people can't do this for reasons similar to why Johnny can't Encrypt.
- anon4 11y ago
  Would it be possible to set this up for others? If yes, I see a business opportunity...
nicholasjarnold 11y ago
These recordings are pretty amazing. I've recently experienced an uptick in spam-call volume (despite being very cagey about who/what gets access to my real phone number), and I think this video just tipped the scales on whether or not I'll be setting up my own Asterix box this weekend. Thank you for this!
earlz 11y ago
This really makes me curious as to how this works and how complicated it was to setup lol
- medmunds 11y ago
  The Lenny algorithm is quite simple: wait for silence, play the next recording. That's it. The recordings are always played in the same sequence. There's no speech recognition involved. The cleverness, of course, is that Lenny's script (and vocal delivery) seems brilliantly designed to keep telemarketers and scammers going on and on and on...

arca_vorago 11y ago

Lobbyist and K-Street are at the core of the problem in the Beltway. I've spent a long time trying to figure out the root issues there, and I think short term limits are the best way to prevent this, because here how it happens. You get elected on hopes and dreams, and propose a bill, but you are a freshman. The senior guy you ask to help you sponsor the bill which is only 10 pages long then says he will support you if you add an amendment that says X, even that amendment has nothing to do with the main bill, and he has been donated money or promised campaign support by $KSTREETGROUP. If you say no, you get derailed, the bill never leaves committee, and you have made an enemy. You agree, and then the floodgates are open for 10 other sitting house members to throw in their amendments too. Before you know it, your bill is 250 pages and they removed all your original text and it's no longer your bill. If you rock the boat, you make enemies and forever get shoved aside. Agree and support the bill you introduced, that is actually now bad legislation, and all those people say they will help you next time. In this case, it's more of the, this bill has to pass, so we can add all kinds of little tidbits and the public won't know about them in time to stop it!. Then you might have a guy or two who actually put that tidbit in vote no just so he has some plausible deniability to his constituents who don't know any better because reports on the hill suck these days. We need to get rid of excessive riders, last minute riders on big bills, extend time for public review, and give power back to congress/senate to take stances without being pushed over politically. The thing is that the lobbyist will mostly just promise to get the guy fired if they push back too much, or they will then donate to another guy who's been in for 18 years and get him to put the pressure on. If we put short term limits (and I don't mean 12 years, I mean 6 year limits) then you can get people who will do stuff and not care about getting booted out, because they never had the intention to turn it into a lifetime job in the first place. Also, we need to stop the revolving door between the hill and k-street. Staffers should not be allowed to turn around and go work for them, as Jack Abramoff put it, once he promised a staffer a job, he found out that they would do more for him than he even asked them to do! We have a broken system, and until we address these fundamental problems, all the other issues people are passionate about will never get fixed properly. Fix the system first, then work on the more mainstream issues. Vote arca_vorago for congress.

hwstar 11y ago
How about a constitutional amendment which states that a bill can only address 1 issue. Separate bills would be required for K street lobbyists to address their interests, and then they would have a tougher time getting these passed.

Spearchucker 11y ago

I bought my phone for my convenience, not anyone else's. It has a whitelist, and if a number isn't on it, it goes to voicemail. Which has a message instructing callers to send me an email, as I don't check my voicemail. I've been running this arrangement for some years now, and it works beautifully.

sarciszewski 11y ago
Same. I actually use Call Control for this exact purpose. Email > Phone Calls any day of the week. Especially with strangers.
hwstar 11y ago
Bill collectors have been known to spoof caller ID with relatives' phone numbers. Yes, I know this is illegal, but it is still done. The best approach is audio captcha where you have to enter a random 3 digit code to get the phone to ring. This throws off most call centers because, the part which makes the phone ring is automated. Once the line is answered, an agent is connected to the line. If the collection agency does not use automated dialing, then DTMF passwords may be necessary. This is a pain for friends and family, but it can be a very effective filter.
- cortesoft 11y ago
  Yeah, my wife is going to love having to enter a random code every time she needs to call me.
- doodpants 11y ago
  A CAPTCHA is never the best approach to anything.
  - Natanael_L 11y ago
    Depends on how much you like taking calls. Having CAPTCHA in incoming calls would be very appreciated by a large number of introverts.

mindo 11y ago

I don't really understand that lobbying thing, who is paying who to officially make life worse for citizens and how this is justified? PS: I'm not american.

hwstar 11y ago
Instead of a government for the People, the People, and of the People, it's actually a government for the Opulent Minority, by the Opulent Minority and of the Opulent Minority. James Madison stated: "Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability."
- hwstar 11y ago
  You know what, you guys who did this are better than this. If you are going to downvote, then explain why.
stoolpigeon 11y ago
Anyone can lobby and so groups who have similar interests raise funds to send people to speak to government officials about what they would like to see done by the government. It's pretty simple.

stoolpigeon 11y ago

I worked in the collections industry for a while. It was my first programming job. I don't understand debtors that don't want to get calls letting them know what is happening. I get it in the sense that they didn't pay their bills and they've chosen denial as their plan for dealing with it but I don't get why anyone else would want to validate that kind of behavior. But if that is the route they want to go the FCDPA clearly states that they can force the debt collector to cease communication for the most part and the avenues that remain open are via written mail. I understand that sometimes an old number or something might be called in error but that has be a pretty rare thing and something easy to deal with on the receiving end. I think the best way to avoid robocalls from debt collectors is to not let your debt go into collections.

Eldarrion 11y ago
That really depends on the situation and the debt collector company in question. My phone is on the do-not-call list, and I have never defaulted on a debt. My phone number has also been mine for eight years now. Two years back, I was getting somewhere along the lines of ten-fifteen calls a day about a debt under a completely different name. They were all robocalls that didn't give the option to stop them contacting me, and repeated calls from me to their company, asking that they cease the harassment and that the person they're calling hasn't used that phone number for at least six years resulted in a lot of "Yeah, okay, we'll stop" only for the frustration and annoyance to continue. In the end, I spent somewhere along the lines of three hours of my time in a single day to get in touch with a high-up enough person that could actually take action and stop the calls. This does not include the numerous previous times I called the company and asked my phone number to be removed from their list, or the amount of frustration the numerous daily calls caused. From what I understand, debt collector agencies tend to be on the shadier side. Not saying there aren't companies that actually handle matters the way they're supposed to, I'm sure they are, but from what I've seen they're the minority. There was even a case where an agency had decided that I had a debt (Amusingly, the amount there was $8.95) and went as far as contacting my grandmother in another country and threatening her that they'd take her house away if she didn't contact me and make me pay the debt I owed them. I've also heard of stories where parents/relatives of friends were contacted and passively threatened with remarks like "We know where you live". So no, free reign to make robocalls isn't a good thing in my opinion. If anything, companies that make those illegally/after being asked to cease should be getting punished instead.

mutagen 11y ago

Spam and the like are going to ruin telecommunications like they've ruined email. It will be a slower process while they get bolder about skirting rules but they're going to get there. Wait until these spammers and debt collectors get your social graph, your contact lists and the like, from failed mobile startups. You're going to start getting fake caller ID from friends and relatives. The endgame is a balkanization of incompatible proprietary telecommunication clients all running you and your devices through a reverse Turing test to confirm legitimate communications. Oh, you'll still be able to get calls if you like, they'll all go to voicemail so your own neural networks can pick out the ones worthwhile to listen to.

mrits 11y ago
Seeing how 90% of my contacts are recruiters I don't know I'm not too worried about it.
ghaff 11y ago
I'm actually not all that concerned. Telemarketing has been going on for a very long time. That's what drove the do-not-call registry and related laws in the first place. I'm not saying what still exists (whether because of deliberate loopholes in the laws or simply breaking them) isn't annoying but it doesn't really seem to be getting worse either from personal experience or from the experience of others I speak with. I get very few junk calls on my cell--though why there isn't a "report junk call" button I don't know. Home gets a steady enough stream to be annoying (2 or 3 a day) but they're easy enough to ignore if I don't recognize the caller ID.
Natanael_L 11y ago
Or everything goes to mutually authenticated encrypted VoIP with whitelists. Like Signal.

astockwell 11y ago

Anymore, answering the phone simply because it is ringing is an anachronism. Ditto to having a land-line (especially without caller ID!). These companies pushed so hard that they've pushed all the sensible folks out of their reach permanently. And kudos to the new wave of phone OSs that allow for blocking any number from your phone itself. We saw that the government wasn't going to do it, carriers certainly didn't do it, so companies and individuals did it.

CaptSpify 11y ago
It's almost like the best course of action for any of these communication systems is educating the user, and giving them the tools to do it themselves! Who would have thought?!

andreasklinger 11y ago

Next up: Anti Call Spam software for Mobile devices becoming a big thing. Built in by default in iOS12. History repeating…

vaadu 11y ago

The Washington Cartel strikes again.

jreed91 11y ago

How about this? I'll answer your calls, if you decrease my loan payment each time.

vonklaus 11y ago

i have been getting crushed by these. i freely admit that the debt is my responsibility ~6k credit cards. but every day 5 calls. fake numbers from my area code (town over) my state doesnt have a chase bank in it and prob no capital one either. 2 months late. call back after i have the money and say i will pay current in a week. all of the collection department (to be clear these are still part of the bank, represented themselves as banking employees, and get routed via a bank number) they offered me $90 bucks off. call back to make direct payment in line with the verbal agreement. them: sir i have no call notes me: ok, let me look. i actually do think i said i would phone you back and pay i have that in my call notes. Them: yes, it says you owe us $100 today. me : (whered those notes come from mate) oh, ok so you were able to find thr notes. do you have the paymeny arrangements i made with lisa? Them : no. me: she offered me an arrangement. them: oh i do see that yes $30 dollars me: (i have detailed call notes with her and everones employee number i spoke with extrapolating the rapidly illegitimate deal they can't put in writiing because it is a service and convenience) sure, well she offered me $90 and i will pay right now, even though i said it wpuld be a week, if you give me the deal she offered which might be in the notes if you look closer (you lieing dickhead) them: no sir, i can give you $30. me: let me think about it and consult my notes, i don't feel confortable paying today. them: ok ---- 2 minutes elapse robo call local number from town over of 7k people. on line don't answer. -- robocall from same number. demanding payment. have similar accent to callcenter people, act like they arent affiliated. look, my fault for not paying and sure i broke the agreement, but fuck this. i dont have to pay i will just never get a credit card this decade. but im trying even on shitty financial terms now to pay you because it is an obligation. but calling me 5x times from fake numbers is fucked up on a 2 missed payments over 2+ years of good standing. couldnt imagine what actual collections would do. this story was about fictional bank p.j morgones. also i want to note capital one was cool about it and as professional (or more) than me as i dis reneg on my card services agreement and they called from their real number

jbooth 11y ago
That sounds like it's not the bank, but some shady player that the bank sold your debt to for .01 on the dollar. If you want to settle the debt, do some research on these players so you don't just throw the money away without getting any credit for it on your credit report.

Natsu 11y ago

The new number on my cell used to belong to someone with a debt. No matter how often I explain that the person they want is not and never will be available at this number again, they keep calling as they sell the debt and the info to new people. So they continually robocall my cell phone chasing someone who isn't and never will be at this number. I do not have and never have had any unpaid debts to begin with. I had to install a call blocking app and I just keep listing new numbers each time. It doesn't buy very much peace, but it blocks enough calls to be worthwhile.

downandout 11y ago

I guess I don't understand the point of this. It appears that these legislators don't understand that permanent blocking of calls and texts from an annoying number are just a tap away in both Android and iOS. They'll be spending millions to harass no one.