6 ms·

The problem is the people are going to look at this the wrong way. Its not that you should be scared of police; its that you shouldn't be scared of terrorists.

cryoshon 11y ago
True, but who do people interact with and see much more? The cops are visible and aggressive whereas terrorists are abstract.
skywhopper 11y ago
Oh, you should be very scared of the police. They have complete power over you, your life, and your property any time you interact with them, even if you do nothing to invite the interaction. If they choose to invade your home, confiscate your cash, or shoot you dead because you didn't respond to their commands fast enough, or slow enough, or deferentially enough, you have no power to respond.
- schrodinger 11y ago
  You have no power to respond on the spot, but you certainly have power to respond later through the court system.
  - msandford 11y ago
    Doesn't do you any good if you're dead or impoverished as a result of your civil asset forfeiture, or things of that nature. Just because some people are able to get justice when their rights are violated, it doesn't automatically mean that the system works. It just means that some people are able to get justice.
  - cryoshon 11y ago
    Yeah, but you have no power to make sure that bad actors get fired and charged. They can fuck with you. You can beat the charge, but not the ride. They will not get comeuppance for sending people on rides.
  - pjc50 11y ago
    Not if you're dead.
  - marssaxman 11y ago
    You MAY have power to respond later, assuming the police officer has not killed you, but that right is of little use unless you can prove that the police officer is lying about what happened, since the court will always believe their testimony over yours. Meanwhile, you are likely to have been injured, impoverished, and/or imprisoned; the best you can hope for is that the "justice" system will agree to stop punishing you. The officer will face no consequences regardless of the outcome. Some "power" that is.
exelius 11y ago
This is exactly it. 9/11 was an extraordinary terrorist event: it killed more people than the previous decade of terrorist attacks worldwide. An attack on the scale of 9/11 is simply impossible in the current security climate. And "ordinary" terrorist attacks are simply too isolated to ever be a realistic threat to any one person. Even in Israel, where terror attacks are commonplace, the number of civilian deaths is very small relative to the population. Or to put it differently, more people died on 9/11 than have died from terrorism in the entire history of the modern state of Israel. You're more likely to win the lottery while being struck by lightning than you are to be killed by a terrorist.
- kazagistar 11y ago
  It is unlikely that anyone has won the lottery while being struck by lightning. Keep your examples sensible.
  - exelius 11y ago
    Well, the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist is closer to whatever near-zero percentage of this ridiculous example than it is to being killed by a police officer. The FBI counted 460 deaths at the hands of police officers in 2014 -- and reporting is voluntary, so over half of the nation's police departments aren't included in that number. Unofficial numbers from citizen watchdog groups are closer to 1,000 people nationwide in 2014, and those numbers have reportedly spiked in 2015.
- user_0001 11y ago
  >9/11 was an extraordinary terrorist event: it killed more people than the previous decade of terrorist attacks worldwide Obviously you mean their "terrorist" attacks on us. Clearly, more people have been killed by either sides "terrorist" attacks. When we drop bombs on 3rd world villages, or fund armies to do it for us, those villages consider it a "terrorist" attack, regardless of whether "we" refer to it differently in the press - protection of interests, operation freedom, operation democracy spreading. Please don't be so closed minded that only "they" are terrorists and "we" are the good guys, everytime without fail. The use terror tactics has been a part and parcel of our militaries since the time the military was created. We are all as bad as each other
dudul 11y ago
Actually you should be scared of the police.
xacaxulu 11y ago
I'm scared of police and I'm basically a WASP. If I were black or latino, I'd be even more scared. Civil asset forfeiture, drug dogs that always indicate presence of drugs, camera/drone tracking of movements of people, illegal phone searches, militarized police departments with special forces type weapons and vehicles, etc. I'm a former US Marine and the police are basically becoming a domestic occupying military force, similar to what I saw in Afghanistan. I'm more scared of police than terrorists because it's statistically way more likely that I'll die, be injured or be defrauded by a member of the police/legal/civil industrial complex.
- morley 11y ago
  I'm sure there are plenty of people scared of terrorists for the same statistically unlikely reasons. It doesn't make that fear necessarily a net positive on society.
- steveeq1 11y ago
  And you are statistically more likely to be killed by a black man than you are by an actual policeman. I agree with chrisBob in that you shouldn't worry about the dangers of policemen in the same way you shouldnt worry about the dangers of black people, even if it's statistically "true". It's simply a bad way to look at it. There is a lot of police brutality news lately in the media so I suspect a lot of availability bias is going on. Things like shark attacks, airline crashes and terrorism tend to get a lot of mental coverage because it sells. And it tends to get a lot of people worried despite their actual nominal probabilities in the grand scheme of things.
  - llamataboot 11y ago
    Police have lots of ways to ruin your life than just killing you (which they can also do with impunity) -- plenty of people have plenty of reasons to fear/dislike the police.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    Whether or not you actually get killed by police, there's still plenty to fear from a paramilitary organization.
mgrennan 11y ago
Correct - More people die in hospitals then anywhere else. So should you be scared of going to the hospital?
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >So should you be scared of going to the hospital? Ludicrous. Hospitals are where the sick and dying go for treatment. Police are there to Protect and Serve. Terrorists try to kill you. Why do the former do more damage than the latter? I agree that the headline is sensationalist, but if you don't think we've got a real police problem, your head is in the sand. Fortunately, the solution isn't that difficult (body cams), and is essentially around the corner.
  - llamataboot 11y ago
    It's important to remember that there is a downside to bodycams. #1) It turns all cops into walking surveillance machines. #2) We don't know yet how much violence it deters, or whether it makes the police more likely to be prosecuted when they commit illegal acts. Initial studies seem promising that it is helpful in some ways, but we don't know how helpful yet. Personally, I think disarming the police would have a lot more effect than body cams.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - vectorpush 11y ago
      > It turns all cops into walking surveillance machines Cops already function as defacto surveillance machines. The bodycam doesn't capture any more than the cop does with his/her own eyes and the cop has the authority to act based on that alone, the bodycam is at least an impartial representation of the cop's (or citizen's) allegations.
      - Coincoin 11y ago
        Yeah, a cop is like a body cam that can lie, has imperfect memory and if used in court can only testify against you. However, the problem with technology is the scale. You can't systematically collect everything a cop sees in a database; with a camera, you can.
tempodox 11y ago
“In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act” — George Orwell Billions of dollars of yearly agency budgets are justified with terrorist scare narratives. Saying that we shouldn't be scared of terrorists is a good beginning. I just wonder if anybody will listen.
- user_0001 11y ago
  the narrative will change back to the red scare shortly as Russia grows. Then the "terrorists" will be our friends. Our war against the terrorists will be forgotten and so on and so on....

cryoshon 11y ago

True, but who do people interact with and see much more? The cops are visible and aggressive whereas terrorists are abstract.

skywhopper 11y ago

Oh, you should be very scared of the police. They have complete power over you, your life, and your property any time you interact with them, even if you do nothing to invite the interaction. If they choose to invade your home, confiscate your cash, or shoot you dead because you didn't respond to their commands fast enough, or slow enough, or deferentially enough, you have no power to respond.

schrodinger 11y ago
You have no power to respond on the spot, but you certainly have power to respond later through the court system.
- msandford 11y ago
  Doesn't do you any good if you're dead or impoverished as a result of your civil asset forfeiture, or things of that nature. Just because some people are able to get justice when their rights are violated, it doesn't automatically mean that the system works. It just means that some people are able to get justice.
- cryoshon 11y ago
  Yeah, but you have no power to make sure that bad actors get fired and charged. They can fuck with you. You can beat the charge, but not the ride. They will not get comeuppance for sending people on rides.
- pjc50 11y ago
  Not if you're dead.
- marssaxman 11y ago
  You MAY have power to respond later, assuming the police officer has not killed you, but that right is of little use unless you can prove that the police officer is lying about what happened, since the court will always believe their testimony over yours. Meanwhile, you are likely to have been injured, impoverished, and/or imprisoned; the best you can hope for is that the "justice" system will agree to stop punishing you. The officer will face no consequences regardless of the outcome. Some "power" that is.

exelius 11y ago

This is exactly it. 9/11 was an extraordinary terrorist event: it killed more people than the previous decade of terrorist attacks worldwide. An attack on the scale of 9/11 is simply impossible in the current security climate. And "ordinary" terrorist attacks are simply too isolated to ever be a realistic threat to any one person. Even in Israel, where terror attacks are commonplace, the number of civilian deaths is very small relative to the population. Or to put it differently, more people died on 9/11 than have died from terrorism in the entire history of the modern state of Israel. You're more likely to win the lottery while being struck by lightning than you are to be killed by a terrorist.

kazagistar 11y ago
It is unlikely that anyone has won the lottery while being struck by lightning. Keep your examples sensible.
- exelius 11y ago
  Well, the likelihood of being killed by a terrorist is closer to whatever near-zero percentage of this ridiculous example than it is to being killed by a police officer. The FBI counted 460 deaths at the hands of police officers in 2014 -- and reporting is voluntary, so over half of the nation's police departments aren't included in that number. Unofficial numbers from citizen watchdog groups are closer to 1,000 people nationwide in 2014, and those numbers have reportedly spiked in 2015.
user_0001 11y ago
>9/11 was an extraordinary terrorist event: it killed more people than the previous decade of terrorist attacks worldwide Obviously you mean their "terrorist" attacks on us. Clearly, more people have been killed by either sides "terrorist" attacks. When we drop bombs on 3rd world villages, or fund armies to do it for us, those villages consider it a "terrorist" attack, regardless of whether "we" refer to it differently in the press - protection of interests, operation freedom, operation democracy spreading. Please don't be so closed minded that only "they" are terrorists and "we" are the good guys, everytime without fail. The use terror tactics has been a part and parcel of our militaries since the time the military was created. We are all as bad as each other

dudul 11y ago

Actually you should be scared of the police.

xacaxulu 11y ago

I'm scared of police and I'm basically a WASP. If I were black or latino, I'd be even more scared. Civil asset forfeiture, drug dogs that always indicate presence of drugs, camera/drone tracking of movements of people, illegal phone searches, militarized police departments with special forces type weapons and vehicles, etc. I'm a former US Marine and the police are basically becoming a domestic occupying military force, similar to what I saw in Afghanistan. I'm more scared of police than terrorists because it's statistically way more likely that I'll die, be injured or be defrauded by a member of the police/legal/civil industrial complex.

morley 11y ago
I'm sure there are plenty of people scared of terrorists for the same statistically unlikely reasons. It doesn't make that fear necessarily a net positive on society.
steveeq1 11y ago
And you are statistically more likely to be killed by a black man than you are by an actual policeman. I agree with chrisBob in that you shouldn't worry about the dangers of policemen in the same way you shouldnt worry about the dangers of black people, even if it's statistically "true". It's simply a bad way to look at it. There is a lot of police brutality news lately in the media so I suspect a lot of availability bias is going on. Things like shark attacks, airline crashes and terrorism tend to get a lot of mental coverage because it sells. And it tends to get a lot of people worried despite their actual nominal probabilities in the grand scheme of things.
- llamataboot 11y ago
  Police have lots of ways to ruin your life than just killing you (which they can also do with impunity) -- plenty of people have plenty of reasons to fear/dislike the police.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  Whether or not you actually get killed by police, there's still plenty to fear from a paramilitary organization.

mgrennan 11y ago

Correct - More people die in hospitals then anywhere else. So should you be scared of going to the hospital?

forgetsusername 11y ago
>So should you be scared of going to the hospital? Ludicrous. Hospitals are where the sick and dying go for treatment. Police are there to Protect and Serve. Terrorists try to kill you. Why do the former do more damage than the latter? I agree that the headline is sensationalist, but if you don't think we've got a real police problem, your head is in the sand. Fortunately, the solution isn't that difficult (body cams), and is essentially around the corner.
- llamataboot 11y ago
  It's important to remember that there is a downside to bodycams. #1) It turns all cops into walking surveillance machines. #2) We don't know yet how much violence it deters, or whether it makes the police more likely to be prosecuted when they commit illegal acts. Initial studies seem promising that it is helpful in some ways, but we don't know how helpful yet. Personally, I think disarming the police would have a lot more effect than body cams.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - vectorpush 11y ago
    > It turns all cops into walking surveillance machines Cops already function as defacto surveillance machines. The bodycam doesn't capture any more than the cop does with his/her own eyes and the cop has the authority to act based on that alone, the bodycam is at least an impartial representation of the cop's (or citizen's) allegations.
    - Coincoin 11y ago
      Yeah, a cop is like a body cam that can lie, has imperfect memory and if used in court can only testify against you. However, the problem with technology is the scale. You can't systematically collect everything a cop sees in a database; with a camera, you can.

tempodox 11y ago

“In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act” — George Orwell Billions of dollars of yearly agency budgets are justified with terrorist scare narratives. Saying that we shouldn't be scared of terrorists is a good beginning. I just wonder if anybody will listen.

user_0001 11y ago
the narrative will change back to the red scare shortly as Russia grows. Then the "terrorists" will be our friends. Our war against the terrorists will be forgotten and so on and so on....