3 ms·

Poynton seems to have achieved its result without the massively disproportionate act of mass surveillance you seem to be advocating.

awjr 11y ago
Admittedly transport behaviour through the scheme could be measured with cable vehicle counters, however determining the exact speed at which a vehicle travels through the scheme could not be done without ALPR. In the UK, there is a push to implement 20MPH zones throughout most residential streets. Using ALPR you could easily measure the impact of these changes to the average speed of vehicles. Yes you could identify "speeding" drivers but I do not see that as a bad thing.
- mhb 11y ago
  however determining the exact speed at which a vehicle travels through the scheme could not be done without ALPR Of course it could. One way would be to ask for volunteers (compensated or not) to put stickers on their cars which would uniquely identify them.
  - awjr 11y ago
    Yes I have seen schemes like this used, but the analysis is at most done on one day only and can be exceptionally expensive (labour costs). To reduce costs local authorities use the simpler and poorer cable counts. ALPR gives full visibility of traffic flow. Something other tracking systems are taking to their logical conclusion http://insights.strava.com/ http://insights.strava.com/
    - mhb 11y ago
      Clearly using ALPR is convenient and produces better results. So would studying people's sex habits by surreptitiously using their laptop cameras instead of asking for volunteers.
      - cjrp 11y ago
        Expectation of privacy in a private/public place.
        msandford 11y ago
        > Expectation of privacy in a private/public place. Private spaces have "always" been private. Public spaces have "always" been pseudo-private. I used to live out in the country when I was younger with every house sitting on multiple acres. If I stopped in the street and had a conversation with a friend, it was a private conversation because we could see other people from a substantial distance. In public people generally assume that what they're doing is basically private unless they can tell that they're being watched, or other humans are so close that there can be no privacy. Technology has outstripped people's awareness of it though. It used to be, for all of history until 20 years ago that license plates were only for other people. Your car didn't care about it, the bridge didn't care about it, license plates were only for other humans (government, police, citizens, etc) to identify your car in some official-ish manner. Now there are machines which can read them from a substantial distance through difficult lighting automatically, nearly flawlessly and retain that information with near perfect fidelity for very, very long time spans. It shouldn't be surprising that people don't know this, don't like it when they find out about it, and react negatively towards it. It's like finding out that there is magic, and has been for years, and that you've been purposefully kept in the dark about it so that some entity with a lot of power has a little more in a vague and unsettling way.
        awjr 11y ago
        The UK no longer issues car tax discs. They simply use ALPR on all major roads. This idea that driving on public roads affords you any privacy is an illusion.

awjr 11y ago

Admittedly transport behaviour through the scheme could be measured with cable vehicle counters, however determining the exact speed at which a vehicle travels through the scheme could not be done without ALPR. In the UK, there is a push to implement 20MPH zones throughout most residential streets. Using ALPR you could easily measure the impact of these changes to the average speed of vehicles. Yes you could identify "speeding" drivers but I do not see that as a bad thing.

mhb 11y ago
however determining the exact speed at which a vehicle travels through the scheme could not be done without ALPR Of course it could. One way would be to ask for volunteers (compensated or not) to put stickers on their cars which would uniquely identify them.
- awjr 11y ago
  Yes I have seen schemes like this used, but the analysis is at most done on one day only and can be exceptionally expensive (labour costs). To reduce costs local authorities use the simpler and poorer cable counts. ALPR gives full visibility of traffic flow. Something other tracking systems are taking to their logical conclusion http://insights.strava.com/ http://insights.strava.com/
  - mhb 11y ago
    Clearly using ALPR is convenient and produces better results. So would studying people's sex habits by surreptitiously using their laptop cameras instead of asking for volunteers.
    - cjrp 11y ago
      Expectation of privacy in a private/public place.
      - msandford 11y ago
        > Expectation of privacy in a private/public place. Private spaces have "always" been private. Public spaces have "always" been pseudo-private. I used to live out in the country when I was younger with every house sitting on multiple acres. If I stopped in the street and had a conversation with a friend, it was a private conversation because we could see other people from a substantial distance. In public people generally assume that what they're doing is basically private unless they can tell that they're being watched, or other humans are so close that there can be no privacy. Technology has outstripped people's awareness of it though. It used to be, for all of history until 20 years ago that license plates were only for other people. Your car didn't care about it, the bridge didn't care about it, license plates were only for other humans (government, police, citizens, etc) to identify your car in some official-ish manner. Now there are machines which can read them from a substantial distance through difficult lighting automatically, nearly flawlessly and retain that information with near perfect fidelity for very, very long time spans. It shouldn't be surprising that people don't know this, don't like it when they find out about it, and react negatively towards it. It's like finding out that there is magic, and has been for years, and that you've been purposefully kept in the dark about it so that some entity with a lot of power has a little more in a vague and unsettling way.
      - awjr 11y ago
        The UK no longer issues car tax discs. They simply use ALPR on all major roads. This idea that driving on public roads affords you any privacy is an illusion.