4 ms·

I agree. By the way, the single case that did not end in conviction was of a black preacher accused of child molestation who had an all black jury. And I'll b

I agree. By the way, the single case that did not end in conviction was of a black preacher accused of child molestation who had an all black jury. And I'll bet most people reading this, trained by tv media's spectacular "everyone is guilty", are instantly and irreversibly convinced he actually was guilty just based on that one above sentence. But if you don't believe me (as you obviously do not) please do take 5 minutes to call a random criminal defense attorney in LA and ask the conviction rate once the defendant enters a not guilty plea.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Last time I sat on a jury, before the evidence was all presented and before the judge even read the law (happens after all the evidence is presented, where the judge reads what the law actually is and explains things like how sure you need to be to find in favor of one party or the other), I heard jurors mention they already had their mind made up. They literally didn't even know what the crime actually was and were already ready to convict. It made me realize I never want to go before a jury if I'm innocent (not sure if a judge is better or not, haven't experience on that end).
LordKano 11y ago
On one occasion, when I was in Jr High School, I was sent to the Principal's office. The assistant Principal started discussing my punishment and I chimed in that I didn't do what I was accused of doing. He said that the teacher wouldn't have used her time to send me to the office if I hadn't done what she said I did. I said that the reason we have trials is because sometimes the authorities make mistakes. He looked at me as if I had spoken to him in a foreign language.
gamblor956 11y ago
I'll do you one better. I was a former criminal defense attorney in LA and the conviction rate once a defendant entered a not guilty plea was roughly 60% (and took it to trial) at the time I practiced criminal defense. Most people actually are guilty of the crimes they are charged with, and simply want to do their time and move on. A few are innocent, and most of them successfully defeat the charges against them, though it's not a popular topic online because it shatters the prevailing narrative. A very small portion of defendants that are innocent get convicted, usually because of their lawyer's incompetence and not because of overwhelming prosecutorial misconduct. The innocent defendants who plead guilty have themselves to blame--either they hired bad counsel, or they made the choice to plead despite the advice of counsel. This is not to say that prosecutorial misconduct does not occur -- it happens quite frequently. But it's not something that most prosecutors engage in and it's very rarely something that affects the outcome of a case.
- makomk 11y ago
  And if they can't afford to hire good counsel, it's presumably their fault for being accused of a crime whilst poor, then?

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

Last time I sat on a jury, before the evidence was all presented and before the judge even read the law (happens after all the evidence is presented, where the judge reads what the law actually is and explains things like how sure you need to be to find in favor of one party or the other), I heard jurors mention they already had their mind made up. They literally didn't even know what the crime actually was and were already ready to convict. It made me realize I never want to go before a jury if I'm innocent (not sure if a judge is better or not, haven't experience on that end).

LordKano 11y ago

On one occasion, when I was in Jr High School, I was sent to the Principal's office. The assistant Principal started discussing my punishment and I chimed in that I didn't do what I was accused of doing. He said that the teacher wouldn't have used her time to send me to the office if I hadn't done what she said I did. I said that the reason we have trials is because sometimes the authorities make mistakes. He looked at me as if I had spoken to him in a foreign language.

gamblor956 11y ago

I'll do you one better. I was a former criminal defense attorney in LA and the conviction rate once a defendant entered a not guilty plea was roughly 60% (and took it to trial) at the time I practiced criminal defense. Most people actually are guilty of the crimes they are charged with, and simply want to do their time and move on. A few are innocent, and most of them successfully defeat the charges against them, though it's not a popular topic online because it shatters the prevailing narrative. A very small portion of defendants that are innocent get convicted, usually because of their lawyer's incompetence and not because of overwhelming prosecutorial misconduct. The innocent defendants who plead guilty have themselves to blame--either they hired bad counsel, or they made the choice to plead despite the advice of counsel. This is not to say that prosecutorial misconduct does not occur -- it happens quite frequently. But it's not something that most prosecutors engage in and it's very rarely something that affects the outcome of a case.

makomk 11y ago
And if they can't afford to hire good counsel, it's presumably their fault for being accused of a crime whilst poor, then?