4 ms·

>Apple has a moral and ethical onus to make the right choices be it related to the confederate flag, changing drug laws, or using emoji to fight bullying, and w

by tsotha 11y ago

>Apple has a moral and ethical onus to make the right choices be it related to the confederate flag, changing drug laws, or using emoji to fight bullying, and we respect that. I can't decide if he really respects that or if he's still hoping to get his app approved. Companies should not be in the business of trying to enforce (clearly unenforceable) laws by removing features that do perfectly legal things.

threeseed 11y ago
But companies equally have a right to own the experience. Creating an app to harvest hardware identifiers and using that to track them is legal. But it tarnishes the experience of their product and is anti-consumer by every definition. Apple should have the ability not to allow that. Just because something is legal does not make it morally or ethically "right".
- pjlegato 11y ago
  The company doesn't own your phone. You do. Surely YOU should be the one who decides what constitutes "proper" software to run on hardware that you purchased?
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  I'm a bit torn on this. On the one hand, I hate how not having ultra strict UX guidelines turns Android app ecosystem into shit (with every major app maker providing their own crap experience). On the other hand, I firmly believe the right of a company to control the "experience" I get from using a tool I bought from them should end the second I walk out of their store. If they are to tell me how I can and can not use my device (above what the law says), then it's not my device, and it's not a tool.
msbarnett 11y ago
> Companies should not be in the business of trying to enforce (clearly unenforceable) laws by removing features that do perfectly legal things. Dragon-dick dildos are legal, but that hardly means Wal-Mart is under any obligation to stock them for sale if that's not something they want their brand associated with. If Apple doesn't want their brand to be associated with racist apps, or pornography, or pony apps, or whatever they choose, why would it not be their right to do the same as Wal-Mart? As consumers, we can choose where to shop based on what stores do and do not stock. If you don't like what Apple stocks, don't shop in its store, and don't buy their devices.
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  > As consumers, we can choose where to shop based on what stores do and do not stock. If you don't like what Apple stocks, don't shop in its store, and don't buy their devices. You're right, but I hate this line of reasoning. At the end of the day, I like using an Apple product and I don't have a problem with 99% of the things they do. So simply telling someone to 'stop buying the product' when they disagree with a relatively minor issue, is silly, and it kills the discussion immediately. It's like congress passes a law I don't like and you suggest to 'leave the country', instead of focusing on the fact it's a bad law that could be changed without having to do something so drastic as leave the country. Debate like this can help, calling them out for things that aren't very sensible is okay and it doesn't have to immediately be met with the obvious 'under the law they can do what they want so your only recourse is to simply never use their product ever again, end of discussion'. Let's also not forget when Apple changed its mind. For example, remember the iPhone 4? It introduced the LED flashlight for its camera, a feature none of the iPhones before had. Immediately flashlight apps were made, and rejected by Apple. Later it changed its mind and they're now a staple in every app store, and later even became an integral part of the OS requiring no app at all, without any changes to the hardware. And it didn't happen because people suddenly sold their iPhone 4 and people stopped buying iPhone 4s because they couldn't get the flashlight app, that'd never have happened. On big features, yeah, not on small stuff.
- smokeyj 11y ago
  Then why allow safari? There's so many scary things online, why would they endorse such things?
  - msbarnett 11y ago
    Because Dateline can't build a concern-trolling episode around "Are iPhones Youth-Corrupting Pornography Machines" when everything and your toaster has a web browser. Every criticism would equally apply to Android and your laptop. It's water off the brand's back. But if Apple is literally taking money and distributing pornography, a news unit is shooting that story tomorrow. Nintendo faces many of the same problems, e.g.) http://www.examiner.com/article/pedophiles-could-take-advantage-of-wii-u-s-video-chat-service http://www.examiner.com/article/pedophiles-could-take-advant...
pjlegato 11y ago
Completely aside from the merits of anti-drug laws, the number of perfectly legitimate applications for "weighing things" is vastly larger than the number of illegal ones.

by tsotha 11y ago

threeseed 11y ago

But companies equally have a right to own the experience. Creating an app to harvest hardware identifiers and using that to track them is legal. But it tarnishes the experience of their product and is anti-consumer by every definition. Apple should have the ability not to allow that. Just because something is legal does not make it morally or ethically "right".

pjlegato 11y ago
The company doesn't own your phone. You do. Surely YOU should be the one who decides what constitutes "proper" software to run on hardware that you purchased?
TeMPOraL 11y ago
I'm a bit torn on this. On the one hand, I hate how not having ultra strict UX guidelines turns Android app ecosystem into shit (with every major app maker providing their own crap experience). On the other hand, I firmly believe the right of a company to control the "experience" I get from using a tool I bought from them should end the second I walk out of their store. If they are to tell me how I can and can not use my device (above what the law says), then it's not my device, and it's not a tool.

msbarnett 11y ago

> Companies should not be in the business of trying to enforce (clearly unenforceable) laws by removing features that do perfectly legal things. Dragon-dick dildos are legal, but that hardly means Wal-Mart is under any obligation to stock them for sale if that's not something they want their brand associated with. If Apple doesn't want their brand to be associated with racist apps, or pornography, or pony apps, or whatever they choose, why would it not be their right to do the same as Wal-Mart? As consumers, we can choose where to shop based on what stores do and do not stock. If you don't like what Apple stocks, don't shop in its store, and don't buy their devices.

IkmoIkmo 11y ago
> As consumers, we can choose where to shop based on what stores do and do not stock. If you don't like what Apple stocks, don't shop in its store, and don't buy their devices. You're right, but I hate this line of reasoning. At the end of the day, I like using an Apple product and I don't have a problem with 99% of the things they do. So simply telling someone to 'stop buying the product' when they disagree with a relatively minor issue, is silly, and it kills the discussion immediately. It's like congress passes a law I don't like and you suggest to 'leave the country', instead of focusing on the fact it's a bad law that could be changed without having to do something so drastic as leave the country. Debate like this can help, calling them out for things that aren't very sensible is okay and it doesn't have to immediately be met with the obvious 'under the law they can do what they want so your only recourse is to simply never use their product ever again, end of discussion'. Let's also not forget when Apple changed its mind. For example, remember the iPhone 4? It introduced the LED flashlight for its camera, a feature none of the iPhones before had. Immediately flashlight apps were made, and rejected by Apple. Later it changed its mind and they're now a staple in every app store, and later even became an integral part of the OS requiring no app at all, without any changes to the hardware. And it didn't happen because people suddenly sold their iPhone 4 and people stopped buying iPhone 4s because they couldn't get the flashlight app, that'd never have happened. On big features, yeah, not on small stuff.
smokeyj 11y ago
Then why allow safari? There's so many scary things online, why would they endorse such things?
- msbarnett 11y ago
  Because Dateline can't build a concern-trolling episode around "Are iPhones Youth-Corrupting Pornography Machines" when everything and your toaster has a web browser. Every criticism would equally apply to Android and your laptop. It's water off the brand's back. But if Apple is literally taking money and distributing pornography, a news unit is shooting that story tomorrow. Nintendo faces many of the same problems, e.g.) http://www.examiner.com/article/pedophiles-could-take-advantage-of-wii-u-s-video-chat-service http://www.examiner.com/article/pedophiles-could-take-advant...

pjlegato 11y ago

Completely aside from the merits of anti-drug laws, the number of perfectly legitimate applications for "weighing things" is vastly larger than the number of illegal ones.