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I'm not entirely missing the point, but I don't know enough about the PCI-DSS to be too much of a contrarian here :) Processes for secure deletion of data when

I'm not entirely missing the point, but I don't know enough about the PCI-DSS to be too much of a contrarian here :) Processes for secure deletion of data when no longer needed Is "needed" defined anywhere? As far as I can tell this requires companies to create a plan – that plan could be very different between companies. I highly doubt Homejoy/Fly Maids is maintaining the data themselves, it's probably stored in Stripe, so unless they are actually storing credit card data in a non PCI compliant way, they are probably fine, right? Let me restate what I think you're saying though: When they shut down Homejoy, they should have immediately deleted all the data they had stored in Stripe (or what ever payment system they use)? "That HomeJoy hasn't done this says to me they are cavalier with their customers data at best. I would not trust them with my credit card details, nor would I be happy letting them into my home." Totally agree, maybe let's leave it at that :)

chris_wot 11y ago
Is "needed" defined anywhere? Speechless! I highly doubt Homejoy/Fly Maids is maintaining the data themselves, it's probably stored in Stripe, so unless they are actually storing credit card data in a non PCI compliant way, they are probably fine, right? No, Stripe would then be violating PCI-DSS themselves.
- codezero 11y ago
  How could Stripe know if one of their users is out of business and should delete their data? I'm a bit confused (as you already know!) Stripe has API calls to get the last four digits and expiration date. Also, it's not clear that the /payments page isn't secure, the screenshot is of the Profile page. *edit: see my reply to your other comment, didn't realize you were OP, so I will now assume you did check the payment form for security and it was not there, which is definitely even more shocking.
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    First, I want to apologise if my tone has been a bit off on a few of my replies. Stripe is very unlikely to transfer credit card data to an entirely different organisation. They also require evidence of PCI compliance before they will do business with you. As for knowing when your business is being dissolved: I have to refer you to their terms of service, found at https://stripe.com/us/terms https://stripe.com/us/terms You agree to give us at least 30 days prior notification of your intent to change your current product or services types, your trade name, or the manner or types of payments you accept. You agree to provide us with prompt notification if you are the subject of any voluntary or involuntary bankruptcy or insolvency petition or proceeding. You also agree to promptly notify us of any adverse change in your financial condition, any planned or anticipated liquidation or substantial change in the basic nature of your business, any transfer or sale of 25% or more of your total assets or any change in the control or ownership of you or your parent entity. You will also notify us of any judgment, writ or warrant of attachment or execution, or levy against 25% or more of your total assets not later than 3 days after you obtain knowledge of it. You are guessing, however, that they are using Stripe or another credit card provider to store that data. But given Stripe need to handle charge backs and other things, I can't see them not knowing about HomeJoy, given how public the windup was.
    - codezero 11y ago
      Yep this all makes sense. I still think there's a chance it wasn't transferred at all. Since the founder of Homejoy runs the new site it could be that they're still the same entity and business with the same stripe account. Maybe this has its own implications. Unfortunately it sounds like the worst case for them is that enough people report them to their payment provider and they get fined. Clearly what they face there is probably not worse than the huge violation of trust their former customers will feel. By the way thanks for digging into this so much. The Stripe TOS are darn clear here.
      - chris_wot 11y ago
        :-) if you hadn't asked a lot of questions, I wouldn't have dug in!

chris_wot 11y ago

Is "needed" defined anywhere? Speechless! I highly doubt Homejoy/Fly Maids is maintaining the data themselves, it's probably stored in Stripe, so unless they are actually storing credit card data in a non PCI compliant way, they are probably fine, right? No, Stripe would then be violating PCI-DSS themselves.

codezero 11y ago
How could Stripe know if one of their users is out of business and should delete their data? I'm a bit confused (as you already know!) Stripe has API calls to get the last four digits and expiration date. Also, it's not clear that the /payments page isn't secure, the screenshot is of the Profile page. *edit: see my reply to your other comment, didn't realize you were OP, so I will now assume you did check the payment form for security and it was not there, which is definitely even more shocking.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  First, I want to apologise if my tone has been a bit off on a few of my replies. Stripe is very unlikely to transfer credit card data to an entirely different organisation. They also require evidence of PCI compliance before they will do business with you. As for knowing when your business is being dissolved: I have to refer you to their terms of service, found at https://stripe.com/us/terms https://stripe.com/us/terms You agree to give us at least 30 days prior notification of your intent to change your current product or services types, your trade name, or the manner or types of payments you accept. You agree to provide us with prompt notification if you are the subject of any voluntary or involuntary bankruptcy or insolvency petition or proceeding. You also agree to promptly notify us of any adverse change in your financial condition, any planned or anticipated liquidation or substantial change in the basic nature of your business, any transfer or sale of 25% or more of your total assets or any change in the control or ownership of you or your parent entity. You will also notify us of any judgment, writ or warrant of attachment or execution, or levy against 25% or more of your total assets not later than 3 days after you obtain knowledge of it. You are guessing, however, that they are using Stripe or another credit card provider to store that data. But given Stripe need to handle charge backs and other things, I can't see them not knowing about HomeJoy, given how public the windup was.
  - codezero 11y ago
    Yep this all makes sense. I still think there's a chance it wasn't transferred at all. Since the founder of Homejoy runs the new site it could be that they're still the same entity and business with the same stripe account. Maybe this has its own implications. Unfortunately it sounds like the worst case for them is that enough people report them to their payment provider and they get fined. Clearly what they face there is probably not worse than the huge violation of trust their former customers will feel. By the way thanks for digging into this so much. The Stripe TOS are darn clear here.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      :-) if you hadn't asked a lot of questions, I wouldn't have dug in!