3 ms·

It's really nice to see a tool like this come out for a statically typed language. When I started learning programming 2 years ago, tools like Light Table and t

by muraiki 11y ago

It's really nice to see a tool like this come out for a statically typed language. When I started learning programming 2 years ago, tools like Light Table and the live editing capabilities of Seaside for Smalltalk were not only a huge help but are something I've come to miss in other languages. I think that live coding tools for the big 2 languages (C# and Java) could be a great boon to students learning programming in college, where at least in my area statically typed languages seem to be the norm.

pjmlp 11y ago
Xerox PARC already had it for Mesa/Cedar in the early 80's, which was the inspiration Niklaus Wirth had for his Oberon system. Which was a statically typed systems programming language with RC and local GC. http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/input-output/14/347/1860 http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/input-output/14/34... https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xeroxparcteCedarProgrammingEnvironmentAMidtermRepo_13518000 https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xeroxparcteCedarProgra... The progress we have lost with mainstream ignoring Xerox PARC research in programming environments. Those workstations already had something like IPython and Swift Playgrounds available.
- iheartmemcache 11y ago
  PARC/Cedar looks real, real cool. I've heard them in passing but the earliest machines I got to use were the mid 90s Sun/SGI era and AS/400s. Local GC as in, as soon as you go out of scope you free? Or is it doing something more complicated than that. I love all these old/research languages/environments, so many cool ideas. Thanks for the archive.org PDF. PS: If you're interested in PARC, you might be interested in Brian Beckman, et al's (of MSR) "TimeWarp" http://www.cs.nyu.edu/srg/talks/timewarp.pdf http://www.cs.nyu.edu/srg/talks/timewarp.pdf. It ran into resource scarcity issues at the time but that's no longer an issue. Old PoC's are really interesting to revisit now that our main issue isn't space but latency. (Fun fact: A CPU -> Northbridge RAM fetch is only ~5x (~60 ms[1]) as fast as a prosumer eMLC SATA3 fetch (~200ns) . Data segmentation matters guys, if you are going to have a cache miss. Sequential data matters and predictable prefetching matters, and isn't "pre-optimization" if you're dealing with low-latency stuff!") (1): https://software.intel.com/sites/products/collateral/hpc/vtune/performance_analysis_guide.pdf https://software.intel.com/sites/products/collateral/hpc/vtu...
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    The local GC was a cycle collector. So traditional RC with GC for the cycles, if any. Thanks for the link.
melling 11y ago
Isn't this like Playgrounds for Swift, which is statically typed. Playgrounds are still a bit hard to work with IMO. Can't build interactive apps, for example. And I can't figure out UIView animations: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33338225/uiview-animation-without-run-in-full-simulator-in-xcode-7-1 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33338225/uiview-animation... However, they are a small step in Bret Victor's vision.
- muraiki 11y ago
  Actually, I completely forgot about Swift, along with the fact that it will be coming to Linux.

by muraiki 11y ago

pjmlp 11y ago

Xerox PARC already had it for Mesa/Cedar in the early 80's, which was the inspiration Niklaus Wirth had for his Oberon system. Which was a statically typed systems programming language with RC and local GC. http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/input-output/14/347/1860 http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/input-output/14/34... https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xeroxparcteCedarProgrammingEnvironmentAMidtermRepo_13518000 https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_xeroxparcteCedarProgra... The progress we have lost with mainstream ignoring Xerox PARC research in programming environments. Those workstations already had something like IPython and Swift Playgrounds available.

iheartmemcache 11y ago
PARC/Cedar looks real, real cool. I've heard them in passing but the earliest machines I got to use were the mid 90s Sun/SGI era and AS/400s. Local GC as in, as soon as you go out of scope you free? Or is it doing something more complicated than that. I love all these old/research languages/environments, so many cool ideas. Thanks for the archive.org PDF. PS: If you're interested in PARC, you might be interested in Brian Beckman, et al's (of MSR) "TimeWarp" http://www.cs.nyu.edu/srg/talks/timewarp.pdf http://www.cs.nyu.edu/srg/talks/timewarp.pdf. It ran into resource scarcity issues at the time but that's no longer an issue. Old PoC's are really interesting to revisit now that our main issue isn't space but latency. (Fun fact: A CPU -> Northbridge RAM fetch is only ~5x (~60 ms[1]) as fast as a prosumer eMLC SATA3 fetch (~200ns) . Data segmentation matters guys, if you are going to have a cache miss. Sequential data matters and predictable prefetching matters, and isn't "pre-optimization" if you're dealing with low-latency stuff!") (1): https://software.intel.com/sites/products/collateral/hpc/vtune/performance_analysis_guide.pdf https://software.intel.com/sites/products/collateral/hpc/vtu...
- pjmlp 11y ago
  The local GC was a cycle collector. So traditional RC with GC for the cycles, if any. Thanks for the link.

melling 11y ago

Isn't this like Playgrounds for Swift, which is statically typed. Playgrounds are still a bit hard to work with IMO. Can't build interactive apps, for example. And I can't figure out UIView animations: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33338225/uiview-animation-without-run-in-full-simulator-in-xcode-7-1 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33338225/uiview-animation... However, they are a small step in Bret Victor's vision.

muraiki 11y ago
Actually, I completely forgot about Swift, along with the fact that it will be coming to Linux.