7 ms·

> Second, a lot of homeless in NYC are that way by choice rather than by direct inability to get a room somewhere. Sometimes this is due to mental issues which

by buro9 11y ago

> Second, a lot of homeless in NYC are that way by choice rather than by direct inability to get a room somewhere. Sometimes this is due to mental issues which are not caused by low income. I've been homeless, so perhaps you'll forgive me for being biased against thinking like that. I would never class mental illness as a choice, or of poor decisions whilst someone is suffering mental illness as a choice. It sounds to me a lot like victim blaming. That a person may "choose" to be homeless because they have mental illness... isn't that more like a lack of compassion by fellow citizens to help support those who are suffering from mental illness? Would it be different if it were a physical illness? That man is homeless because he chose to be due to having a broken leg. That sounds ridiculous, and frankly that's how your statement sounds to me. I "chose" to be homeless. Sure, my choice. I could've stayed in a violent and sexually abusive environment and living in poverty. But instead it was my "choice" to sleep on the streets to escape it. I didn't even choose hostels - I voluntarily declined a bed to sleep in - because when you've come from a shared sleeping environment in which you were not safe and feared physical abuse nightly, then you may understand my reticence to enter a shared sleeping environment with strangers, some of whom as you pointed out may have mental illness. Perhaps this is all just a mental construct to make you feel better about yourself. If you are able to imagine that these people took responsibility for themselves and this was a free choice, you are able to absolve yourself of any individual part of the responsibility to show compassion and empathy towards fellow humans. If all we've got to offer people as a society, is a "choice" to sleep without shelter, without warmth, without safety... I'm not really seeing how anyone can say that people "choose" this. Edit: Whilst this issue has attention: http://crackandcider.com/ http://crackandcider.com/ I'd urge anyone doing secret santa's, or just feeling flush to go there, and buy things for homeless people. They're good people, taking no profit but covering costs, and just giving this stuff to people who need it.

cubancigar11 11y ago
It is misandry.
sokoloff 11y ago
I'm moved by your story, but wonder what would you propose as a workable alternative for someone in your position? It seems like the requirement that you not share sleeping space makes your situation a very difficult one to address, no? No-cost private hotel rooms seems financially a non-starter.
- buro9 11y ago
  I read about a scheme in the USA, where they had built single-room accommodation on the edge of some town. These were small huts, no larger than a shed, and held a very small studio/bedsit setup. These were standalone units, basically sheds/huts. The huts were cheap, and being self-contained they were good tools to help someone re-enter the world of housing, of taking care of housing, of cooking for oneself and cleaning, etc. Training grounds for all the skills you need to survive when you finally get somewhere larger, but also large enough not to give you shelter, security. They had other things, like a central place to go and socialise, to get used to humans again, and counsellors and support people... but the key thing is a very small space that is yours. That would be enough... a shed. It need not be permanent, just enough to lift someone from the very lowest point in their life to a point fractionally above that. In effect I did this too. For shelter from snow over Winter I would trespass onto building sites after they had closed and would sleep in the site office. It was shelter, there was generally a heater and a kettle. I could make a bed, I would leave the place tidy. But most of all, it was safe and I always felt confident I would survive the night (something I wasn't sure of the times I lay shivering violently under bushes in Manchester). Little steps, lots of support, understanding. Just giving someone an apartment isn't the answer, it's about supporting people, to help them re-integrate. A home isn't a magic bullet for people not ready to live in one.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    Informative answer; thank you for that and I wish you the very best in your path to re-integration.
    - buro9 11y ago
calibraxis 11y ago
Excellent points, and thanks for reliving that triggering-sounding situation to educate people for free. Hope we don't disappoint... too much.
unethical_ban 11y ago
>Would it be different if it were a physical illness? That man is homeless because he chose to be due to having a broken leg. His leg doesn't make decisions. His mind does. So if a mental illness shapes a person's thoughts for him to "decide" something, then it is choice, albeit manipulated by sickness.
JDiculous 11y ago
I know this is a highly unpopular opinion, but I believe there is a difference between mental illness and physical illness. There is typically at least some semblance of control over mental illness. Yes it may not be constructive to "victim blame", but doing the exact opposite and assuming absolutely no responsibility for bettering your own mental situation is equally unconstructive. Unlike a physical illness, a mental illness can not be cured by popping a pill. Typically it requires some effort on the part of yourself to fix it. For example, I used to have OCD. To fix it, I had to make a huge concentrated effort on my part. This meant moving to a new environment, forcing myself to be social to get out of my head, and basically just making a concerted effort not to be OCD. If I had the mentality that "oh it's not my fault, I'm a victim", then I never would have taken the extraordinary amount of effort required to overcome it. And same goes for depression. Most depressed people could fix it by making some massive lifestyle changes (eg. being more social, exercising more, changing their environment, making new friends, changing their outlook on life). Anti-depressants might temporarily boost you by numbing you to your pain, but they're not going to solve your fundamental issues. So to summarize: yes it may not be helpful to "victim blame", but relinquishing people of any responsibility for their own mental problems (excluding conditions like autism) most certainly isn't helpful either, and if anything seems more harmful because there's no semblance of control over it. The cure to alcoholism is to stop drinking, and having a victim mentality will definitely prevent you from curing it.

by buro9 11y ago

cubancigar11 11y ago

It is misandry.

sokoloff 11y ago

I'm moved by your story, but wonder what would you propose as a workable alternative for someone in your position? It seems like the requirement that you not share sleeping space makes your situation a very difficult one to address, no? No-cost private hotel rooms seems financially a non-starter.

buro9 11y ago
I read about a scheme in the USA, where they had built single-room accommodation on the edge of some town. These were small huts, no larger than a shed, and held a very small studio/bedsit setup. These were standalone units, basically sheds/huts. The huts were cheap, and being self-contained they were good tools to help someone re-enter the world of housing, of taking care of housing, of cooking for oneself and cleaning, etc. Training grounds for all the skills you need to survive when you finally get somewhere larger, but also large enough not to give you shelter, security. They had other things, like a central place to go and socialise, to get used to humans again, and counsellors and support people... but the key thing is a very small space that is yours. That would be enough... a shed. It need not be permanent, just enough to lift someone from the very lowest point in their life to a point fractionally above that. In effect I did this too. For shelter from snow over Winter I would trespass onto building sites after they had closed and would sleep in the site office. It was shelter, there was generally a heater and a kettle. I could make a bed, I would leave the place tidy. But most of all, it was safe and I always felt confident I would survive the night (something I wasn't sure of the times I lay shivering violently under bushes in Manchester). Little steps, lots of support, understanding. Just giving someone an apartment isn't the answer, it's about supporting people, to help them re-integrate. A home isn't a magic bullet for people not ready to live in one.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  Informative answer; thank you for that and I wish you the very best in your path to re-integration.
  - buro9 11y ago

calibraxis 11y ago

Excellent points, and thanks for reliving that triggering-sounding situation to educate people for free. Hope we don't disappoint... too much.

unethical_ban 11y ago

>Would it be different if it were a physical illness? That man is homeless because he chose to be due to having a broken leg. His leg doesn't make decisions. His mind does. So if a mental illness shapes a person's thoughts for him to "decide" something, then it is choice, albeit manipulated by sickness.

JDiculous 11y ago

I know this is a highly unpopular opinion, but I believe there is a difference between mental illness and physical illness. There is typically at least some semblance of control over mental illness. Yes it may not be constructive to "victim blame", but doing the exact opposite and assuming absolutely no responsibility for bettering your own mental situation is equally unconstructive. Unlike a physical illness, a mental illness can not be cured by popping a pill. Typically it requires some effort on the part of yourself to fix it. For example, I used to have OCD. To fix it, I had to make a huge concentrated effort on my part. This meant moving to a new environment, forcing myself to be social to get out of my head, and basically just making a concerted effort not to be OCD. If I had the mentality that "oh it's not my fault, I'm a victim", then I never would have taken the extraordinary amount of effort required to overcome it. And same goes for depression. Most depressed people could fix it by making some massive lifestyle changes (eg. being more social, exercising more, changing their environment, making new friends, changing their outlook on life). Anti-depressants might temporarily boost you by numbing you to your pain, but they're not going to solve your fundamental issues. So to summarize: yes it may not be helpful to "victim blame", but relinquishing people of any responsibility for their own mental problems (excluding conditions like autism) most certainly isn't helpful either, and if anything seems more harmful because there's no semblance of control over it. The cure to alcoholism is to stop drinking, and having a victim mentality will definitely prevent you from curing it.